Mouth Problem

Hello,
i am currently having a mouth problem with my leopard gecko. we got him about 4 months ago and he was doing fine, over the last few weeks though we have been seeing this patch on both sides of his mouth form, some days it hasn't allowed him to open his mouth fully other days it looks like it doesn't bug him, since we have been monitoring this we have seen it come and go a few times, nothing really has changed for it to come and go. we clean his tank once a week, which includes taking out the paper on the bottom of the tank we are using as a substrate, we change his water regularly, his diet consists of small-medium crickets about 2 daily (he hasn't lost his appetite since acquiring the mouth problem) and we have a calcium dish in the tank with him always as well we dust the crickets in a Calcium D3 and multivitamin mix before dropping them into the tank. As for his tank the temperature sits around 80degrees F on the warm side and 72 degrees F on the cooler side. there is also an under tank heater on the basking side of his tank that runs during the day and is shut off at night. he hides all day in a log on the cooler side and will come out at night, wander a bit then go back into hiding, he does that many time throughout the night.

any advice as to how i am caring for him or in regards to his mouth problems would be greatly appreciated, if there are anymore questions i will answer them as quickly as i can thanks for the help and i will be attaching photos of both sides of his mouth to hopefully get a better understanding of what i am talking about

I hate to alarm you but that looks like mouth rot. The fact that he has yellowish, crusty scabs on his mouth and his mouth looks a tad odd are red flags for me. I would take your leo to a vet immediately as this cannot be treated without prescribed antibiotics.

Also, you're only feeding your gecko two crickets daily? Its hard to tell by the picture, but he seems to be older than a juvie. He looks like he's almost an adult...even still, he needs to eat more than that! Example: When my leo was still small (17 grams), he easily wolfed down 20 mealworms in one sitting and would eat another 20 the next day. Let him eat more.

80ºF on the hot side is too cold. He needs a belly temp of 88ºF-95ºF to properly digest food. He also does not need a basking lamp...a day bulb would be sufficient if you want a night/day cycle so you don't stress him out, irritate his eyes, etc etc.

Best of luck for your gecko...in the meantime, if you want to keep it clean with diluted hydrogen peroxide (1:1 water/hydrogen peroxide), it could help. Just gently swab it on your gecko's mouth and wipe it off after it foams for a few seconds. Don't let him ingest it if you can help it (basically don't leave his mouth wet and put him back in the cage). Wash your hands religiously, too.

is feeding him just crickets a bad thing we have tried the meal worms but he wouldn't touch them had them in a dish left them in for a few days but wouldn't bother with them.

for the lighting i changed it up so the tank was sitting at 89 degrees and the cooler side was around 77-79 degrees.
now with the lighting since i have my room light on a fair bit should i be wrapping the tank at night so it stays dark and it doesn't bug him? i have been doing that for awhile now but not to sure if that's the right thing to do

i didn't mention before but the humidity has been sitting around 40-50% based on a leopard gecko book that we bought when we first got the lizard but i have been told that it should be sitting at around 30% since it is a desert reptile

as for the main concern of me posting due to the holiday season we cant get him in until the 31st, so i am a bit hesitant to use the hydrogen peroxide on it since it is right close to his mouth, if i were to dilute it more say a 2:1 (water/peroxide) ratio would that even do anything at that point. i just don't feel like killing him with a chemical i am using to try and help him.

again thanks for any help/ advice given i really appreciate it

Are you using an under tank heater or a light?
Leos need an undertank heater, as they get heat from their bellies to digest their food. They don't bask so they don't need lights.

yup i have an undertank heater under one half of the tank

I am surprised he is still eating:( Variety of insects always best. You can try silkworms and phoenix worms in addition to crickets. The temperatures are too cold and may be what caused it to begin with. Raise the warm side up so that you have a range of 90-95 over the heat mat. It's best to keep the gradient 24 hours especially since he is ill.

Did you explain his symptoms over the phone when you made the appointment? Most vets will see them sooner. Personally I would not use the hydrogen peroxide because it's not going to be an easy task to get in his mouth. I would just keep him warm at all times and try to get him in sooner. Also the humidity is fine at 40%.

Diluted hydrogen peroxide will not harm your leo. Hydrogen peroxide is just one extra oxygen above water. You do not have to swab inside his mouth...in fact, that is not what I said. Please do not put words in my mouth. Swab just the outside where his scab is just to stop the bacteria/infection from spreading and then wipe it off before he licks too much off.

Hydrogen peroxide can disrupt and kill the natural flora in his gut if not diluted and if he is allowed to lick all of what you use to put on his mouth. Just a quick, wet swab of 50/50 water to hydrogen peroxide then a dry swab 2-3 seconds after and you're golden. It will not kill him unless you take a teaspoon of it and force it down his throat, which I'm sure you're sane enough not to do.

However, you do not have to use it if you are uncomfortable. It's just a suggestion to help him out for the time being until you can get him into the vet...it's also a suggestion I've been given by a few leo owners and breeders outside of this forum.

If you are measuring ambient air temp, you should try to get a probe or a temp gun to get the temperature of the floor of the hot side of the enclosure. Belly heat is what leos need, not ambient.

As for wrapping the tank, do what you think is best. I personally do not wrap Typhon's tank to block out light. As for the humidity I really wouldn't worry about it. Your humidity gauge could just be picking up the humidity from the humid hide inside of the tank.

For feeders: some leopard geckos are not bowl eaters. Mine certainly is not and probably never will be. I have to wiggle the mealworms with tongs or make them thrash around to catch his attention. A varied diet is what they need and what is best for them, but for now just let him eat more. Two crickets a day is definitely not enough.

i didnt mean to accuse you of saying to swab the inside of his mouth i just mentioned i didnt want to do it since it was so close to his mouth but at this point im i dont have much of an option i cant wait and not do anything everything is worth a try, he isnt producing any bowel movents as well and im getting worried so its time to do something

Actually peroxide is not recommended at all as it can slow healing. I wanted to correct what I wrote but for whatever reason this will not let me edit. Diluting as tsuhei said will decrease the chances, however is you can find Chlorhexidine it will be better. They can spiral downwards quickly once it has affected the outer area of the mouth. That is why I said to try to get him in to the vet sooner.

Sorry for snapping - I just wanted to stress that I wouldn't put a cotton swab inside of a leo's mouth as it could snag on its teeth. Plus, it would probably stress the poor thing out.

Peroxide can slow healing - it's from the bubbling up that it does when it reacts to bacteria, open flesh, etc. Diluting it and reducing the amount of time for exposure will lessen the effects. This type of "treatment" is not supposed to be used long term. Maybe 5 days maximum. But again, if you feel uncomfortable using it, don't use it. This is just something I suggested to try and stop the progression for the few days leading up until the veterinary appointment. A vet visit will do more good than hydrogen peroxide any day.

As for chlorhexidine, I've honestly never heard of it until now. I did a quick Google search and apparently it has been associated with causing problems (like deafness) in cats. It looks like you really have to dilute it as well for animal use...for a leo, I have no idea how much to dilute it. If you have more information on the product, by all means please share it with us since it seems pretty good on gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria. Otherwise, I wouldn't suggest it since there seems to be a few unknowns about using chlorhexidine, which, again, seems to have some negative effects on cats (who knows how it might effect a leopard gecko since they are smaller/not mammals).

If you could get into the vet sooner, it would probably be better.

It's commonly used and for other purposes as well and your right it must be diluted, sorry I forgot to mention that.

http://www.anapsid.org/disinfectants.html

http://www.triciaswaterdragon.com/mouthrot.htm

unfortunatly the 28th would be the earliest i can call about it the exotic vets around here are closed until then and not even sure they are the exotic vets anymore i got the numbers from

http://www.triciaswaterdragon.com/canrepvt.htm#ont

Well, the sooner you get an appointment the better.

For now, just keep everything in his cage super clean. I'm sure you change his water bowl everyday, but also disinfect it with each water change. Wash your hands a lot as well.

As for further advice for "temporary treatment" (I use this very loosely), I think that's all I could suggest based on my experience. Again, a vet is more in order than some at-home remedies.

@ herp625 - Fascinating. Thank you for the links and clarification, I highly appreciate it. The second link has a lot of very useful information. It looks like a very powerful product based on how much you need to dilute it (4-6 TB per gallon of water for cleaning purposes/wound irrigation diluted to 1% strength). Good read.

Your welcome:)

i have been changing the water twice a day and washing out the bowl, for the tank during the week i have been removing the waste that is accumulating and change the paper twice a week.

ill still be taking him to the vet but when i woke up this morning his mouth looked like this (see attached pictures) and he was a bit more vibrant im going to guess he shed last night but not 100% on it

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How is he doing?