Enigma Problems

Hi can anyone give me any helpful advice.

I have a female Nova and a female Black-Hole both of which i rehomed knowing they had slight enigma problems but over the last few months they have slowly been getting worse the nova walks around in circles anytime she is exposed to any form of light & sometimes walks with her head on the side & the black-hole does the same but she has problems shedding(she bit her own toe off) & sways her head from side to side & sometimes falls on her back when walking or just after you put her down, the strange thing is that both of them live together fine and have no problems finding there food.

Any advice would be gratefully recieved.

They are both lovely girls and i just want to do my best for them

hmm, is there any envrionmental factor that could be causing extra stress? ... any new lights, substrate whatever?

This is a long shot but, since light often affects enigmas... maybe the longer hours are causing it? ... nah ... lol.

its a shame to hear about the bad enigma's. but as horrible as it is, i dont think there is much to do for the bad ones but to let them live, as long as they are finding food alright, and make sure their lives are stress free.
Obviously, if they are falling over, then making their enclosure safe is a must.

let me know how they get on...

no enviromental factors i can think of, they live on kitchen roll, have a shallow water bowl and a moss box, they are kept in a rack system and as for lighting they only see daylight via the bedroom window.

I've had plenty of good enigmas but these 2are the worst i've seen, i took there house out of there tub to stop them falling off it, they are both too big to get on the moss box so thats safe apart from when they get into and cant find there way out cos there to busy doing donuts, i handle them both as little as possible as they donut in my hands & im scared i'll drop them.

when i got them they very rarely done donuts and the black-hole could shed ok, i dont know why they have got worse as i do the same as there old owner.

i did ask my vet and he said that he thinks he needs to see them and see how bad they are but i've been putting it off, do you think i should take them to see him?

Personally, i don't think a vets gonna do much, because a lot of UK vets don't know much about leopard gekco's. And i don't think many will know much about enigma issues.
I reckon they might just tell you... 'he has brain problems' ...

Im afraid i dont have very much experience experience with enigma's having only owned the one and he is rather good.
So i dont know what any other causes are of the issues other than an increase in stress.
I mean, as you said its been in the last couple of months which makes me think the start of the season may have some cause, maybe they have started ovulating or producing some infertile eggs which is causing stress or hormonal fluctures?

my vet is pretty good with leo's, but i think i would be wasting money taking them to see him cos as you said he'll prob just say brain problems.

i used to have 2 tug snow enigmas & 1 SHTCTenigma and they were all fine, i also currently have mack snow tremper albino enigma het raptor male thats ok but does sometimes stare into the sky for ages and doesn't realise whats going on around him but all the babies he's fathered have been perfect and never shown any problems, its just these 2girls i've had real problems with.
its possible they could be ovulating now as they are last years babies, i dont think they'll produce any eggs as they have never been in with a male.

Im jealous of the TUG enigmas haha. :P

Well ovulation is a possibility then, but obviously its stressful to check them for it, so i wouldnt bother haha.
Especially since, even if they are, then i wouldnt recommend introducing a male.

Its a rare issue but, there is the possibility with all females of first time ovulaters to produce infertile eggs, either grow them and re absorb, or grow them and lay them. So i mean, if they do have growing follicles right now, then that may be sending them loopy.

How are the poops? Looking healthy and normal? and Appetite?
An illness or infection may be causing them some stress.

i only just sold the last tug snow enigma out of the 2 she had been on my website for 5months before she sold.

I agree checking for ovulation would be to stressfull to check them for. I would never put a male with them as i dont think they could cope mentally.

The rare issue you talk of i had happen to the female in my picture above my name but she wasn't so lucky, the egg didn't re-absorb and go away, it turned into a hard mass and found its way into her blader but lucky we realised she had a problem and took her to the vet but she cost me £150 to have it removed via opperation.

the girls poops look perfectly healthy and normal, they are not eating as much as they were but they are not lossing weight.
i dont think that other than there obvious problems that there is any under-lying problems causing the enigma problem to get worse, but i could be wrong.

samsleopardgeckos wrote:i only just sold the last tug snow enigma out of the 2 she had been on my website for 5months before she sold.

really!?!?! i dunno why i didnt snatch them up :P

samsleopardgeckos wrote:
The rare issue you talk of i had happen to the female in my picture above my name but she wasn't so lucky, the egg didn't re-absorb and go away, it turned into a hard mass and found its way into her blader but lucky we realised she had a problem and took her to the vet but she cost me £150 to have it removed via opperation.

Gosh, thats really unlucky.
How did you end up spotting that.

samsleopardgeckos wrote:
the girls poops look perfectly healthy and normal, they are not eating as much as they were but they are not lossing weight.
i dont think that other than there obvious problems that there is any under-lying problems causing the enigma problem to get worse, but i could be wrong.

Your right, i can't think of anything else that may be underlying and causing any stress or change.
Is there any research on enigma issues increasing with age? or anything.

Im stumped.

Jordan.

PS, sorry i was just testing out the quote feature is working properly now.

i bet you would of i got the tugs from crystal palace reptiles and there the only place i've seen selling them but that was over a year ago.

Gosh, thats really unlucky.
How did you end up spotting that.
yeah it was unlucky as my giant girl was egg bound at the same time, i spotted it when they both started to lose weight after mating a few months earlier and didnt lay anything so took them both in to the vet who done xrays found large eggs in the giant and a mass in the super giant. the giant was easily sorted with a endoscope removal of the eggs but unfortunately the super giant wasn't so lucky.

i have found nothing on enigma problems in any off the books i have but haven't researched it on the internet yet as currently trying to find out about gout in bearded dragons.

Sam

ps the quote thing works well lol

Glad you got it sorted though.

Well i hope you find something, let me know how it goes with the girls.

Jordan

so am i just not sure if i should leave breeding them this year so they can both mature a bit and so poor zilla can recover from the opperation as it was only done last november.

hopefully i can find out some info on both the gout and the enigmas, i'll keep you posted on how they are doing, will have to help little black-hole soon as she is dulling down and getting ready to shed but unlike normal leos she cant get her head, belly, feet or tail skin off without help any more bless her

sam

personally i reckon they should wait until either later in the year or next year to breed. but its up to you.
Waitng would also give you the chance to see if there enigma issues will calm down or not.

i wasn't on about about breeding the enigmas i'll never breed from them there just pets.(sorry to confuss you)
i was on about my giant ans super giant girls that both had egg problems last year and the super giant was only opperated on in november.

Ah right, im not sure then. I mean since they had egg problems then i suppose there might always be the chance in the future... but if its been sorted then hopefully its completely sorted.
Its up to you if you wanna run the risk of a big vet bill again or not. haha.

i cant afford another big vet bill at the mo so will prob leave them till next year and hopefully by then they'll be ok.

Good idea. Probably for the best.

yeah it is.

i decided to take my 2donuting girls to the vets today and he gave me a answer to there problem, Hepatic Lipidosis (fatty liver disease) i have some tablets to give them to see if their problems improve and if so they'll prob have to stay on them but one tablet crushed up does 2weeks with being given every other day and its possible the fatty liver was caused by they begining to ovulate so that was £22 well spent if the tablets work.
he diagnosed this by lifting them up and looking at there internals from underneath, there g.blader was really dark as it should be but there livers were both really pale, the vet showed me this by using the g.blader to compare the liver to as the liver is right below the g.blader.

so fingers crossed the treatment will work

wow good thing you took em then.

So did he properly explain to you? which part is the liver on the stomach view? i wanna check if any of my gex livers are pale lol. Though that might just make me paranoid.

yeah it was a good job.

yes he did, its most common in breeding geckos females and males but it usually causes weight loss due to the liver absorbing the fat and it not making any fat store else where. in the case of my 2 its caused a problem with there brains which he did give me the scientific name for but all i could remember is the hepatic lipidos which i have dealt with before in all the leos i brought from america and once given the same treatment over a few months all regain perfect health/weight.

right when you turn you leo on its back about 1inch down from the front leg on the leos right side (ass facing you your left) you'll find a small dark organ (g.blader) under that is the liver and if its pale/white looking you might want to get some Denamarin Chewable for dogs a box of 30 is £45 off the internet and it has to be the chewable 1s,(i can tell you how to use them when and if you do need to use them)

Thank you very much for the information, and hopefully i'll not need to do it.
I hope the treatment works charms for your gecko's.

Jordan

thats ok, glad i could help & hope you dont need to treat yours for it.
Fingers crossed for my 2girls, will let you know if they do improve with treatment.

Sam

i wish you good luck.

Also, first thread with more than one page this haha.

Btw, does everyone like or dislike the little reminder at the top, the reminder of what the original post was?

thank you i'll prob need it knowing them 2 lol.

i like/think its a good idea as even tho i wrote i couldn't rember all what i had wrote lol
dumb blonde i am

haha, good ol' enigmas. Tons of fun

Okay well i'll see if anyone else has an opinion and that and if not it can stay.
Just making a few more changes around the place at the moment.
Will post them into the Mod news when im done.

bless the girls lol

will keep a eye out for you changes

and thank you for all your help with my girls