repost from my intro thread! unhealthy weight leo

[paulmhoward]

My leopard gecko - Jack - is very underweight, i bought him in mid july. He also lost a lot of color the first month i had him.

I will be switching his heat source to UTH with thermostat very soon. Any other suggestions?

the following is a copy of my post from my intro thread! read more here - http://www.leopardgeckoforum.com/t1145-new-to-geckos
"I originally had two leo's one seemed to be eating more than the other then out of no where, the one who was eating, just died. i followed all basic rules for housing and feeding and all that. so im not sure what killed him. after he went, my other one stopped eating for a while and lost a lot of weight.

Ive tried a lot of things to help him gain weight back but i havent seen much change in the last 3 weeks. I gave him a UV bulb (as per instruction from a petco worker/owner of many reptiles including a few leos) and he became a little more active. I even saw him eating more. My problem is that he still hardley eats. He drinks often which is good and i have a dish with vitamin powder in it and i see evidence that he visits it from time to time. His tank is heated/lit by a heat bulb during most the day and the temperature is in the low-mid 80's...which i read is average? I plan to use a lower wattage bulb and get a small UTH in the next two weeks. He has two hides, one that i keep moist and one that is more dry.

He has fresh water every two days about and attempt to feed him regularly. I get him crickets every week, and i have a dish of small mealworms too. The worms tend to stay untouched and eventually die off before he eats them. The crickets, for the most part either hide or roam around the tank for days and he only seems to eat a few."

[paulmhoward]

[Kermit]

Aww I'm real sorry you're going thru this. Unfortunately store clerks often offer improper care regardless of their experience. If they kept a leo wrong or went by an inaccurate caresheet, as it sounds like this one might have, no good can come of it. I would like to ask you to copy and paste our care questionaire (found in the health section stickys) so we can see all aspects of your husbandry that could be affecting your leo.

As much as I hate to say this, your leo at this point is in need of critical care from a herp savvy vet and any changes you made are like plugging a dam with bubble gum. Your leo is very ill, dehydrated ans unfortunately may not make it unless he has diagnostics done to determine what's making him ill. All we can offer at this point is minimal.

What I can offer at this point with out seeing your questionaire answers is from the picture your leo is emaciated. For now using the uv light is ok, it'll give your leo another source of D3 but they usually only stress leos out so the benefit doesn't outweigh the risk usually since leos don't bask.

Your leo absolutely needs a heat mat as soon as possible. With out proper temps I don't think your leo will make it another 2 weeks. He needs a minimum hot side temp of 88-96*F and for ill leos maybe even warmer, around 98. Improper temps can affect feeding and digestion drastically. If its too cold your leo can't properly thermoregulate or digest his food which can lead to GI stasis as everything will slow down and eventually stop. You need to monitor your temps with a probe thermometer on the floor of the viv right over the uth.

There's another sticky by kodieh that is for long term non eating gecko slurry. You can make this an dab it on his nose to get him eating again and also offer bugs. Since he's had crickets regularly he could have parasites. You'll need to have a fecal checked by a vet to rule this out. Offering mealworms properly gutloaded with fresh veggies will be more active and easier to catch than crickets which should stimulate a feeding response if you get your temps up. Don't feed too much too fast to an emaciated leo or you risk refeeding syndrom (please google it).

You might want to adjust your hides as well if your tank can accommodate it. 1 hot side 1 cool side and 1 moist humid hide on the warm side for this guy for now. It'll aide in shedding and a little with the dehydration. You can use damp layers of paper towels or sphagnum moss for the humid hide.

For now this is all I'm comfortable offering until we can see your care questionaire. This lil one is in bad shape he really needs a vet at this point. In the meanwhile id also suggest reading a sticky in the housing section on setting up proper leo housing. It could address any other housing questions you may have.

Good luck, please keep us posted.

[joneill]

Oh dear, that gecko hardly looks like a gecko at all! He is seriously under nourished. Please please feed him! Something is horribly wrong with your setup cos he appears to be on his last legs. You need to act quickly and make sure he has everything he needs. Most importantly, he needs an under tank heat mat, ie. heat on the floor of his enclosure, and not a basking bulb. This is crucial so that he can digest his food. Overhead heating does nothing for them.

[Karagain]

Welcome to the forums.

I honestly think this get need IMMEDIATELY veterinary attention. It could be an underlying problem such as crypto... But I dont think that the leo would survive the stress of being taken to the vet in that state

But a feacel exam needs to be done asap as the leo is dangerously underweight the qualified herp vet may presuscribe something like to help if it is parasites or something like repti-boost or criticalcare (you can buy them in the shops, but a vet advice would be better)

[gothicgurrrl]

I agree with Becca.. The little dude needs to get to the vets ASAP.

[smsararas2]

*gasps* I understand you are doing your best. This poor little guy, yes please take him to the vets

[Jordan]

I think i'm the only one who believes a vet visit may do more worse than good.
Imagine taking that gecko, who may start eating like a pig tomorrow, or with the improvements to the enclosure, and picking up against his will, maybe causing him pain, since he is so skinny it will lkely hurt, trapping him in a small box, forcefully picking him up again when he is already confused and stressed, and then a vet forcefully handling him and restraining him.
THAT may just kill him.

I think the best thing to do would be to make the improvements to the husbandry, maybe think about making up a slurry for him to encourage eating. and most importantly get a fecal sample sent off as soon as possible.
If it comes back positive for any illness or parasite, then visit a vet without the gecko to discuss an action.

I certainly agree that this gecko needs veterinary attention... but can you honestly imaigne putting that gecko on the verge of death through all that stress. It needs a fecal, and minimum stress, also his appetite needs to be worked up.

[Kermit]

Yes Jordan I also agree that simply the stress of the vet visit alone could just push this lil one over the edge... it's a catch 22 situation... he needs the vet care, but the stress of it call could mean his demise but it could be his demise with out it as well so you're really in a difficult position. I would love to see him have at least a meal or 2 under his belt before any stressors are introduced but you absolutely need to have a fecal done to see if his emaciation is caused by parasites... he could just be too weak to eat properly at this point, but usually when it's parasites, you see a voracious appetite and a wasting body, but in the late stages of parasite infestation where the load is more than the herp can bear you will see the other functions start to fail such as lack of appetite, regurg when eating, lack of movement and activity, no poos, etc. Ther are other conditions such as crypto that also need to be ruled out but unfortunately if it is crypto there isn't a lot that can be done to help this lil one out



Please keep us posted and ask any other questions you may have.

[Kodieh]

It's not his fault guys, that the little thing is so sickly. He got it from Petco and they are notorious for doing this to leopard geckos.

I was once told by an employee that, "Yeah, we've got a couple suffering from impaction; there's nothing we can do to prevent it." Just short of flogging the guy, I flipped out and lectured him on it.

Needless to say, they don't like the "weird reptile guy" who comes in to buy feeders.

[Karagain]

I know its not his fault I got sold a leo with impaction (was told its was skinny cos it was a baby), which then shortly died.... But the best thing to do is to try to make it as comfortable as possible and trying to get it healthy again...

[mrs looney]

oh my god that is awfull i hope he gets better

[Mardy]

That gecko does not look good, I would recommend a vet visit right away. If it was healthy to begin with, and lived alone, I'd say sure give him more time to feel secure & comfortable to eat. But it was housed in the same cage as another gecko that just died of unknown causes. If you don't get some sort of exams done, you may very well lose this one. There could be something wrong with it, and it could've caught whatever the other gecko had that caused its death.

Personally, a vet check up was probably the wise thing to do the moment one of the geckos in the same cage died.

Now you mentioned crickets just run around in the cage "for days". Crickets should not be left in the cage for days, it shouldn't even be left in the cage overnight. Crickets have known to gnaw on leopard geckos, and they can be vicious (they can draw blood from our fingers). Crickets also will eat gecko waste, which in turn could ingest parasites. So what would happen is your geckos go and eat the crickets, and thus ingesting parasites in return.

I'm going to guess there are other things wrong with your terrarium setup, but since I can't see the whole setup I can't recommend anything else.

[xXGeckoGalXx]

I'm really praying your little guy turns out well, good luck!

[paulmhoward]

Thanks everyone! i am in talks with a vet. and hopefully we can help my lil pet back to being healthy! i will be posting progress.

if he doesnt make it, i will never give up on leopard geckos! i love leopard geckos, crocodile geckos, and bearded dragons!

i really think that the petco gave me sick Leos. with that being said, its a month or two beyond refund date. would it be wrong of me to fuss a little bit with managment?

[Maggie118]

My boyfriend and I both have had so many issues with Petco in the past and I've call and complained numerous times. Mostly what they do is give you the run around and say they do the best they can and they will inform their managers of the situation. They probably would give you a refund if you made a big enough deal out of it. Even if they don't it wouldn't hurt to give 'em a little hell because the way they treat their animals and the condition they sell them in just isn't right.

I hope that you can nurse him back to heath ASAP.

[Kermit]

I would contact their corporate office, totally cut out the store level BS and runa round... also be sure to tellcorporate any money you spend in vet care because that is also something you can recoup under consumer protection laws. Depending on where you live there are consumer protection laws established for purchasing bum pets too ( the Pa state puppy lemon law is a good example of this) you can also report them to the better business bureau to mediate the problem and hopefully reach an amicable resolution so remember the more you complain to the right parties the more likely you are to recover any expense involved in your sick leos care.

[smsararas2]

I am sending all my good vibes your way Paul, I know you are an awesome gecko keeper and you want to do your best, so all my good vibes are headed your way. He is a little fighter

[samsleopardgeckos]

good luck in getting him better Paul hope he pulls through for you

[paulmhoward]

Well, attempting arbitration through BBB is a huge time consumer. Not worth that much trouble...(had to do that before with a car) But if he doesnt make it, i will complain to the right people and i will be very thorough.

But this gecko is a fighter! he has been sick for quite some time and i think he will pull through! Seeing a vet near the end of the week, so heres hoping for the best!

[Maggie118]

I was just at petco today and I saw two leos that looked quite malnourished. I don't know how they're still in business. I feel like buying their animals just to give them a chance at life and try to save them. So heartbreaking

[paulmhoward]

I hear ya! Ever since i picked up the geckos there back in July, they always look so sick and poorly kept. but i will say that their snakes, iguanas and several of their other reptiles seem very well kept.

[Maggie118]

Most of the reptiles I saw today were shedding and I'm not sure if all of them need like a moist box but they didn't have any. And they all only have like one hide for 5-10 of them.

I'm thinking about getting a snake, and even though I'd rather get it from a breeder I might just get it from petco because like I said I'd like to save it from a life of misery being mistreated because of them and people who almost always give their buyers bad information.

[paulmhoward]

yeah! go ahead and get one from there. it will be a better option for the animal to live with you than in that pet store for a few more weeks.

[paulmhoward]

BTW - i cleaned my leo's tank about 4 days ago, and rearranged some things to fit the ideal viv according to the posts on this site, and he seems to be venturing out a bit more. Really all i did was build him a third hide that is lined with paper towels that i keep moist, and limit time/amount of crickets that are in his tank and seems less stressed and he comes out of his hides more.

He keeps his eyes closed most the time, even during the evening when all the lights are off. He visits his water dish and calc/vitamin powder, and climbs around on his hides. the only thing i will be adding this week is a uth/thermostat. although i did move his tank into a place where the heat lamp for my ball pythons viv heats the right side and bottom of his tank. i have a thermometer in that corner and during the daytime the temperature reaches about 92-96 degrees on the hot side(as per Kermit's suggestion). this week i will be adding the uth in place of that temporary solution, and i will be attempting to make and feed him a slurry. That was something the vet also suggested without me bringing it up. i also plan to bring him to the vet by the end of the week. im just trying to lower his stress and raise his strength before i make him endure the trip out there.

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