Temperature advise needed

I am just setting up a tank for my first Leo's and have got confused over temperature.

I have a heatmat with thermostat set to keep the hot hide at 95F but the cold side of the tank is at around 65F. The heat mat is on the bottom of the glass tank and I have no substrate at the moment.

I was wondering if this differenial is OK, as the glass is cold off of the heat mat, or if I need to put a slate or simular substrate in help store the heat and bring the cold side temperature up.

Any advise would be greatly recieved.

I would definitely use some type of substrate between tank bottom and gecko. One of my terrariums has stick on tile and one has paper towel over the glass. I prefer the paper towel as its easier to clean/replace. its really up to you on what substrate to use but common substrates are: slate/stone tile, high-end stick on tile, paper towel, reptile carpet-its not suggested because its pretty hard to keep clean and its pretty much a breeding ground for bacteria- but it is an option. I wouldn't use any type of particle substrate, like soil or sand, because if an animal does ingest any of the substrate it may cause impaction which in time could be deadly.

65* is low but sometimes at night my cool side gets down around 62* to 65* and it doesnt seem to be affecting my geckos in a negative way. You may need to observe the temp at night to make sure there isnt a difference in night temps just to make sure it doesnt get any colder. From what i have read, cool side temps are usually fine from 70* to 80* but someone please correct me if im wrong.

I recommend either slate tile or paper towels as a substrate. If your gecko is on the glass with nothing but the glass between it and the heat mat, your gecko will get burned.

As for the difference in temps, that's perfectly fine. You want what biologist call a temperature gradient. Reptiles thermoregulate, or their body temperatures are the same as their surroundings, so they need to be able to move to a cooler area if they get too hot to bring down their body temp. It's actually good you have a temp gradient. But, if you're concerned it's TOO low the best you can do is put a space heater somewhere else in your room and heat that room up so the over all ambient temperature is higher. You'll need to adjust the heat mat down of course, once everything levels out.

Your temperature gradient is fine, as long as your cool side stays pretty close to room temp you're ok. If you get below 60 tho I would consider adding a ceramic heat emitter just to bring the ambient temps up a bit on the cool side, a nice low wattage one tho nothing too powerful or you'll lose your temp gradient. Also Kodie if the temp is staying around 95-97*F it is unlikely the leo would get burned. The larger concern is the lack of traction when walking on bare glass could cause developmental problems with the long bones in the legs leading to spalyed legs or other deformaties that could affect the spine. You really should have a substrait that provides some traction. All the ones already mentioned are great substraits, just make sure it's somethng with some texture to it so your leo has grip. You might want to check out the show off your set up sticky in the housing section for some ideas.

The glass above your uth would feel a little cool to the touch considering your body temp is 98.6 and the viv is 96-97, it would feel cooler.. make sense???

Fantastic advice there guys. I do intend on putting something on the glass and slate looks an obvious choice as it is very cheap around here and will hold the temperature more stable. It is not practicle to heat the room as it will cost too much with fuel prices rising fast but I had considered a second heat mat or ceramic heater just to bring up the ambient in the tank more, did not want to use lights for heat as they could upset the Leo. I have two min-max thermometers on their way so can monitor temperatures better. Other options I have considered was to insulate the bottom of the tank where the heatmat isn't, leaving the mat to vent or to block some of the top vent as the whole tank is open at the moment.

Covering half of the screen top with some tin foil would help bounce the heat back into the viv, also insulating the sides and bottom where there is no mat would also help. You can use that insulboard that they wrap houses in as a good insulator, it spray paints nicely too so you don't have to look at ugly tyvek printing You can use a blue moonlight bulb on the cooler side but even a 25 watt could bring your temps up about 6 degrees which would likely degrade your gradient too much.

I have insulated 3 sides of my viv with this insulating plastic styrofoam


You can find it packed with things like TVs or stereos. It's about 2 inches thick.

You can see it here on the outside of his tank on the side wall. It also helps to provide some more privacy with out causing a reflective surface because it's porous unlike black paper.


I also have half my top covered in foil to help reflect heat back since the room he is in has 2 84 inch tall windows it can get kinda chilly


If you're wondering, that was just a 15 watt regular incandescent bulb in that dome fixture. Nothing uv rated or heat related, mostly just for taking pictures altho it does raise temps about 2-3 degrees and is low enough wattage to not hurt their eyes.

Hope that helps

Really helps to see some pictures, especially in the sticky too. Going to get some slate or a tile tomorrow and play around to see what temperatures I can get. Leos not hatched yet so have a few weeks to get it right before I get them

I do like you rock hides Kermit, are they stuck down with anything or just use gravity to hold them in place.

My rocks are all field collected slate and shale creatively stacked to make them secure and leo bulldozer proof the only thing that is glued is the little log going up to the cold side hide platform on the left side of my tank and into the bark steps below it.

This was before I added the bark steps.


With the bark steps


and now


sorry about the glair. Will be taking new pix soon.

Kermit wrote:Your temperature gradient is fine, as long as your cool side stays pretty close to room temp you're ok. If you get below 60 tho I would consider adding a ceramic heat emitter just to bring the ambient temps up a bit on the cool side, a nice low wattage one tho nothing too powerful or you'll lose your temp gradient. Also Kodie if the temp is staying around 95-97*F it is unlikely the leo would get burned. The larger concern is the lack of traction when walking on bare glass could cause developmental problems with the long bones in the legs leading to spalyed legs or other deformaties that could affect the spine. You really should have a substrait that provides some traction. All the ones already mentioned are great substraits, just make sure it's somethng with some texture to it so your leo has grip. You might want to check out the show off your set up sticky in the housing section for some ideas.

The glass above your uth would feel a little cool to the touch considering your body temp is 98.6 and the viv is 96-97, it would feel cooler.. make sense???

Herm-Kerm the room temp has to be no lower than 73, I read it in the new expensive reptile and surgery book, the air temp was 77-85 at night should not go under 70

Happy birthday

As for certain temperatures feeling "cold" to the touch, I find that debatable because it depends on your hands. For instance, my hands are medium sized but boney so they don't hold as much heat as other parts of my body, especially this time of year. I can touch my torso and face and they feel much warmer and also when I touch the bottom of my leo's enclosure it feels a little warm. The temperature gun reads 93-95ish but when pointed at my hand it's in the 80's.

As for not having thickness between the UTH and your leo, I bought a $4 carpet/welcome mat at Walmart, cut it up to the size of the tank, and put reptile carpet over that carpet so I wouldn't have to clean it.

Kermit wrote:
I have insulated 3 sides of my viv with this insulating plastic styrofoam

Only one question I have and it is for Kermit, will regular Styrofoam work (The white kind.) and how do you have it hanging onto the sides of your enclosure?

ThyUnholy wrote:As for certain temperatures feeling "cold" to the touch, I find that debatable because it depends on your hands. For instance, my hands are medium sized but boney so they don't hold as much heat as other parts of my body, especially this time of year. I can touch my torso and face and they feel much warmer and also when I touch the bottom of my leo's enclosure it feels a little warm. The temperature gun reads 93-95ish but when pointed at my hand it's in the 80's.

You gotta clean no matter what you put it there, if not you'll have bacteria growing.

Kermit I like your tank set-up

Got some green slate today from garden center and after washing will be putting them on the heat mat to see if that brings the ambient temperature up a little. Will keep you posted.

peach75 wrote: You gotta clean no matter what you put it there, if not you'll have bacteria growing.

I meant spot clean it because all that would do is smear it in because its a weird texture. I will clean it once a month as I do with the whole tank.

peach75 wrote:

Kermit wrote:Your temperature gradient is fine, as long as your cool side stays pretty close to room temp you're ok. If you get below 60 tho I would consider adding a ceramic heat emitter just to bring the ambient temps up a bit on the cool side, a nice low wattage one tho nothing too powerful or you'll lose your temp gradient. Also Kodie if the temp is staying around 95-97*F it is unlikely the leo would get burned. The larger concern is the lack of traction when walking on bare glass could cause developmental problems with the long bones in the legs leading to spalyed legs or other deformaties that could affect the spine. You really should have a substrait that provides some traction. All the ones already mentioned are great substraits, just make sure it's somethng with some texture to it so your leo has grip. You might want to check out the show off your set up sticky in the housing section for some ideas.

The glass above your uth would feel a little cool to the touch considering your body temp is 98.6 and the viv is 96-97, it would feel cooler.. make sense???

Herm-Kerm the room temp has to be no lower than 73, I read it in the new expensive reptile and surgery book, the air temp was 77-85 at night should not go under 70

Happy birthday

Thank you for the birthday wishes

As much faith as I'd like to put into our wonderful publications on accuracy in articles... we tend to over do 3 things when we keep captive herps... over feed, over suppliment, and over compensate true environmental heating/lighting needs. I base my temperatures on the animals natural habitat and thier geographical weather reports. I've done some experimenting on my own with the facts I read about their natural habitat versus what the "documented experts say" and I have found simulating their natural geographical temp ranges suited my leo better. If you look at my making the perfect set up sticky I link a geographical weather site in there so you can truly compare their simulated environmental needs.

Keeping Eros' cold side viv room temperature and as you see with a lot of natural stone, keeps the cool side ambient between 64-69*F in the winter months and 75-85*F summer months. The stone is usually a few degrees warmer because of the thermodynamics of stone absorbing heat during the warmer parts of the day and slowly dispersing it through the colder nights... I believe it behooves the animal to have at least a portion of their tank regulate with the season change esp. if you want an eager breeder when the appropriate times come into play. A natural cycle is important for healthy animals imo. We're providing an unnatural consistant heat source 24/7 for 1/3rd of their viv so they have a consistantly warm place to retreat to. It's THEIR choice whether or not they choose to stay at the coolest part of their viv, somewhere in the middle or on the warmest spots when appropriate. This is why it's called a gradient... a scale of temperature going from 1 extreme to the other. That came off sounding snarky, sorry...

I'm not saying this is a perfect method, but I find it works well for my leo. My goal with my viv was to simulate their natural environment both asthetically,and structurally; and through that structure achieve a self sustaining, naturally thermoregulating environment like the deserts leos inhabit. I just wanted to provide a different point of view to herp keeping that works if you just research things a little bit past the generally acceptable published "norm". It's these same published norms that inaccurate care sheets are based, petshop misinformation is given, and we spend a good part of our day trying to get these errors changed. Buying "simulated rock hides" made of plastic versus field collecting natural stone is going to affect your surface and overall ambient temperatures completely differenly and provide a more true accurate "natural" environment, not just in how it looks but in how it is affected by proper heating.

Again a topic of controversy that can be proven right or wrong many different ways in 1 arguement... what should the cold side temperatures be...

ThyUnholy wrote:

Kermit wrote:
I have insulated 3 sides of my viv with this insulating plastic styrofoam

Only one question I have and it is for Kermit, will regular Styrofoam work (The white kind.) and how do you have it hanging onto the sides of your enclosure?

I don't believe styrofoam would works as well if it were the break apart white ridgid stuff. I mean it will technically work to a degree providing a thermal break but it won't be as effective since it's a much more "air filled" type of styrofoam. A ballon full of air won't insulate as well as a ballon filled with pliable plastic will. Know what I mean? again thermodynamics of objects comes into play here. This stuff is made of porous plastic, it is flexible and allows air/heat to pass through (to a degree).

All I did to apply it was put a dab of gorilla glue on each corner and stick it directly to the viv. If I ever take it off for something else the glue will scrape right off with a razor blade. Be sure to leave a 2-3 inch gap at the top (if it's a 12 inch high viv) or 1/4 the height for any other sized vivs. to allow for natural light penitration.

Kermit wrote:
I don't believe styrofoam would works as well if it were the break apart white ridgid stuff. This stuff is made of porous plastic, it is flexible and allows air to pass through (to a degree). All I did to apply it was put a dab of gorilla glue on each corner and stick it directly to the viv. If I ever take it off for something else the glue will scrape right off with a razor blade. Be sure to leave a 2-3 inch gap at the top (if it's a 12 inch high viv) or 1/4 the height for any other sized vivs. to allow for natural light penitration.

Thanks for the info. If all I can find is the white kind I probably won't bother it. Might have what you are talking about though but it would me among the random things packed away in the basement.

If you need something similar it has the texture and density of those poly filter sponge type things that you find in aquarium filters but you don't want to be able to see light thru it, or pipe wrap for insulating pipes.

Kermit wrote:Keeping Eros' cold side viv room temperature and as you see with a lot of natural stone, keeps the cool side ambient between 64-69*F in the winter months and 75-85*F summer months. The stone is usually a few degrees warmer because of the thermodynamics of stone absorbing heat during the warmer parts of the day and slowly dispersing it through the colder nights... I believe it behooves the animal to have at least a portion of their tank regulate with the season change esp. if you want an eager breeder when the appropriate times come into play. A natural cycle is important for healthy animals imo. We're providing an unnatural consistant heat source 24/7 for 1/3rd of their viv so they have a consistantly warm place to retreat to. It's THEIR choice whether or not they choose to stay at the coolest part of their viv, somewhere in the middle or on the warmest spots when appropriate. This is why it's called a gradient... a scale of temperature going from 1 extreme to the other.

.............................. My goal with my viv was to simulate their natural environment both asthetically,and structurally; and through that structure achieve a self sustaining, naturally thermoregulating environment like the deserts leos inhabit. I just wanted to provide a different point of view to herp keeping that works if you just research things a little bit past the generally acceptable published "norm". It's these same published norms that inaccurate care sheets are based, petshop misinformation is given, and we spend a good part of our day trying to get these errors changed. Buying "simulated rock hides" made of plastic versus field collecting natural stone is going to affect your surface and overall ambient temperatures completely differenly and provide a more true accurate "natural" environment, not just in how it looks but in how it is affected by proper heating.

Again a topic of controversy that can be proven right or wrong many different ways in 1 arguement... what should the cold side temperatures be...

This is exactly the way I have been thinking ........ why should I heat my house to 75F all year round when in the wild they do not get that choice and actually hibinate when it gets too cold. I do not want to get to that stage but by playing around with substrate and rocks I should be able to get a comfortable place to live for my Leo's at little extra cost for heating for me. I have a few weeks to play around with it and research a little more into it and by doing so will be able, hopefully, to share my findings here.

The main reason for my question was to get me the base information to work from and find out if anybody had done what I was thinking of doing, and Kel has ........

Will keep you posted ........

Happy to help. I'm kind of a naturalist when it comes to my vivs and planted terrariums. I try to simulate a natural habit just on a much smaller scale, like a creekside planted viv, or a tropical planted viv, or a rocky desert type terraine... all have different requirements and should be pretty much self sustaining. Eager to see how it turns out for ya... if you have any questions feel free to ask

ps... they won't hibernate... they'll brumate if it gets too chilly for an extended period of time but if you plan on breeding you wwant that cool down so that your leo will ovulate properly.

Well the slate really helps, cold side temperature up by 3 degrees C. Need to split the slate a little as is too thick at the moment but that is a job for later ing the week. Also used polystyrene to lag under the cold side so looking good.

Will post some pics when I get back home........