New Females

I copied and pasted this off another forum I posted it on..

New females, Shelby hanging down irked as hell about them


Closest is a Hot A's (Tangerine I believe, named Charmander). Farther is a Tangelo, Super Ancient Dino Beast


She is asking me to get those *****es out of her house


I love their morphs, both are pregnant I believe, surprise on the Tangelo ATM and the Hot A's if pregnant is Red Stripe Het Eclipse (might be wrong have to check with previous owner)


Both are to skinny for my liking, but they are feeding on supers and mealies atm like chow hounds




Shelby still pissed, Shiro coming to check out his new *****es


Charmander






Notice the tail size difference




Super Ancient Dino Beast (*****)


Trying to bite me the whole damn time lol


Love her head patterns




Thanks for looking! I am trying to fatten them and get their eggs safely out and hatched and then I wont be putting them with a male until they are fatter, they are far to skinny IMO. Any advice on helping them get healthier would be appreciated, also I have a question about the Tangelo she has been holding since before my first post, my friend got these two at the same time and she has been obese gravid since, she has no signs or prolapse or anything, she is eating and pooing, and if you look at her belly you can clearly see eggs, any idea what is going on with her? My friend and I did not breed this female, she was thrown in on a package deal and was already gravid. I wouldnt ever have bred her with her being so under weight anyhow.. I am just worried about her and dont want to lose her.

wow they are absolutely beautiful lovely colours!
how much do they weight?

Leopard geckos can produce eggs without being fertile, sort of like a chicken does. Just make sure you have somewhere for her to lay it.. like a moist box filled with sphagnum moss or vermiculite.

That's about all I know about breeding and eggs, but we have some very experienced breeders on here who will be able to give you loads of great advice!

gothicgurrrl wrote:wow they are absolutely beautiful lovely colours!
how much do they weight?

Leopard geckos can produce eggs without being fertile, sort of like a chicken does. Just make sure you have somewhere for her to lay it.. like a moist box filled with sphagnum moss or vermiculite.

That's about all I know about breeding and eggs, but we have some very experienced breeders on here who will be able to give you loads of great advice!

Super Ancient Dino Beast who looks the smallest weighs 53grams, Charmander is 47grams and Shelby looks the biggest but she is even with SADB at 53grams.

Well she was from the same breeder and he said she had been bred (cant remember with what) and she should be laying any day, and she still hasnt.
I have the moist hide do you think that would be enough? Or should I make her another one moist hide and give her options? I was going to put two more little ones or one big one in anyway because now there are four geckos together.

I will probably post a pic and question in another section so I will get more attention. Thank you though so much!

Cute geckos. Although that's a lot of geckos in a small area with not many hides for them. It's sort of recipe for disaster. While females generally get along, they don't always like having to stand next to another gecko. It's recommended that for each gecko you have, you add in that many hides to make sure they all get to have their own space. Remember if there's an optimal hide with the best temperature & humidity, they'll all want that hide. So what happens if you only have 1 optimal hide is that the alpha gecko will get that hide and push the others out.

As for female being gravid and not laying, a few possible things:

-A female could re-absorb the egg and not lay, it's quite normal for virgin females.
-That female could be ovulating but not really gravid, or if she's gravid, it may be infertile, so she could be in the process of re-absorbing them.
-Stress could make them not lay, so if she's being re-homed and moved around, or be dumped into a small area with several other geckos, she may not want to lay.
-Sometimes females get egg-bound, at times it's a health condition and require surgery, other times it's due to there not being a suitable laybox for them.

Most geckos love moist hides, especially breeding females. If you have 4 females you're breeding, you will need to have at least 4 moist hides for them. Moist hides often are also used as the laybox. You can use coco fiber as the laybox medium, it should work fine as their moist hide as well.

Mardy wrote:Cute geckos. Although that's a lot of geckos in a small area with not many hides for them. It's sort of recipe for disaster. While females generally get along, they don't always like having to stand next to another gecko. It's recommended that for each gecko you have, you add in that many hides to make sure they all get to have their own space. Remember if there's an optimal hide with the best temperature & humidity, they'll all want that hide. So what happens if you only have 1 optimal hide is that the alpha gecko will get that hide and push the others out.

As for female being gravid and not laying, a few possible things:

-A female could re-absorb the egg and not lay, it's quite normal for virgin females.
-That female could be ovulating but not really gravid, or if she's gravid, it may be infertile, so she could be in the process of re-absorbing them.
-Stress could make them not lay, so if she's being re-homed and moved around, or be dumped into a small area with several other geckos, she may not want to lay.
-Sometimes females get egg-bound, at times it's a health condition and require surgery, other times it's due to there not being a suitable laybox for them.

Most geckos love moist hides, especially breeding females. If you have 4 females you're breeding, you will need to have at least 4 moist hides for them. Moist hides often are also used as the laybox. You can use coco fiber as the laybox medium, it should work fine as their moist hide as well.

Uhm, they are in a 20 gallon super long so they have plenty of space to get away from one another, and I put in 4 more cup typed hides for them so if they choose they can each have their own hide plus the moist hide (gonna add another 2 or big 1 tomorrow).
They do all have their own hides, but they all cram into 1 or 2 and lap all over each other. Shelby is the dominant female and she is always on Shiro, but the main hide they all try and get in if big enough for them all if they choose to cram in.

-That could be whats happening, how long would it take for her to reabsorb the eggs? I kind of hope thats what she is going so she can get the nutrients back into her body, but she still has two big eggs it looks like in her.. :/
-That also could have been it, but up until 3 or so days ago she was in a stable well spaced big rack with herself, Charmander, and the male my friend had. They all had their own hides and a big 32quart moist tub for them all. I dont know if that would be enough to stress her, she was very well acclimated to that home and he was a good owner and didnt harass them at all... would it hurt her to not lay if she was close or ready to? Can she just hold her eggs for a long period of time and lay when she chooses or feels like it?
-Would she have signs or symptoms from this? She seems very healthy outside of her being skinny to me, she eats/drinks/poos, moves all over the tank, has shed 2-3 times and just acts like a normal gecko, and wouldnt she be dead from this quickly? She has been this pregnant since she was acquired..

I will be putting in 2 or 1 large (big enough for them all to fit if they choose and have their own 1'' space to be away from others if they are all in together) moist hide for them tomorrow when I can dig out a few tubs or find my big one, she goes into the one they have now just like the others, I keep it nice and moist for them and spray it daily to keep it wet..

Its just baffling because I kept asking my friend and he said she still hadnt laid and still hadnt and I was telling him she was probably going to die from being egg bound but she hasnt yet, I feel so bad for her because if she isnt absorbing the eggs she is using all her energy on them and thats probably why she isnt gaining weight..
Thank you for answering me, if you need anything else from me to help me try and figure this out I will try and give that to you as soon as I can

Sorry from the pictures I couldn't tell it was a long tank, it seemed like a small "tall" from the angle the pictures were taken. I'll say that 4 females in a 20 gallon long is still pushing it. You could give them more room by adding a second level to allow them to crawl up and lay on.

As for how long it takes for them to reabsorb the eggs, it depends. Depends on how developed they are, also depends on how fast their body absorbs. So it can take quite a long time. By the way, if a female was bred too young, or was not given proper nutritional supplements such as calcium, she would most definitely reabsorb the eggs.

How do you know if a female is eggbound? It's very hard to tell actually, even for a vet. But if she's as active & healthy as you say, eating, pooping, moving, being alert, then chances are she's not egg-bound. Being egg-bound, they lose their appetite, you would see them straining when attempting to push or go. They wouldn't be active and may seem lethargic. If you notice this with that female at anytime, you would want to take her to a vet. Also check her stomach to make sure she doesn't have a bunch of egg follicles being developed at the same time alongside the eggs. If you google "leopard gecko egg-bound" and view the images, you'll see some examples of what an egg-bound stomach looks like.

Mardy wrote:Sorry from the pictures I couldn't tell it was a long tank, it seemed like a small "tall" from the angle the pictures were taken. I'll say that 4 females in a 20 gallon long is still pushing it. You could give them more room by adding a second level to allow them to crawl up and lay on.

As for how long it takes for them to reabsorb the eggs, it depends. Depends on how developed they are, also depends on how fast their body absorbs. So it can take quite a long time. By the way, if a female was bred too young, or was not given proper nutritional supplements such as calcium, she would most definitely reabsorb the eggs.

How do you know if a female is eggbound? It's very hard to tell actually, even for a vet. But if she's as active & healthy as you say, eating, pooping, moving, being alert, then chances are she's not egg-bound. Being egg-bound, they lose their appetite, you would see them straining when attempting to push or go. They wouldn't be active and may seem lethargic. If you notice this with that female at anytime, you would want to take her to a vet. Also check her stomach to make sure she doesn't have a bunch of egg follicles being developed at the same time alongside the eggs. If you google "leopard gecko egg-bound" and view the images, you'll see some examples of what an egg-bound stomach looks like.

Lol yea, I did have a 10 gallon for them but they gave me their 20gal long for taking over the care of those females.
I was wondering about that, they do seem to like crawling up on the top of this one rock hide I have, I could make a little thing for them kind of like the platforms in a rat cage or turtle tank. Plus it will be "fun" for them and good to exercise a little.

Okay, I am hoping thats what she is doing, so she wont lose more nutrient laying the eggs, she might not have been given proper supplements or could be very young, I wasnt there to ask those questions and I wish I was, I know once they got her they had calcium and stuff available in the tank, I have a bowl in the tank for them right now as well, so hopefully that with healthy gut loaded food will get her healthy again.

I only know the symptoms for being egg bound in birds (chicken/duck/pigeon/dove) and they are a lot different than gecko, I dont think thats what is going on with her, she is probably the most active and is always out moving around even during the day.
Me and my friend were talking about the vet idea, his gf is going to contact their herp vet and see if we cant get a exam for cheap/free and just see what they say. I feel so bad because a big belly like that must not be very comfortable.
What do the follicles look like? I will look the egg bound leopard gecko thing up right now, thank you again!

You have 4 leos in a 20 long tank that definitely is NOT enough space. 10 gallon minimum for each leo in a group tank do that would mean you need at least a 40 gallon, preferably a 40 gallon breeder to give you more length and less height. I would separate out the female youre worried about into that 10 gallon you have laying around to see if that helps her desire to lay with out having the other leos stress her. Aside of that out just sounds like youre waiting for her to die in which case you'd be better off giving her back to the breeder so someone a bit more experienced with laying females can try getting her back on track. Good luck.

Okay she doesnt look egg bound at all.. I put in more areas for her and the others to get away from each other, I am getting wire to make the ramp 2nd level thing.

Kermit wrote:You have 4 leos in a 20 long tank that definitely is NOT enough space. 10 gallon minimum for each leo in a group tank do that would mean you need at least a 40 gallon, preferably a 40 gallon breeder to give you more length and less height. I would separate out the female youre worried about into that 10 gallon you have laying around to see if that helps her desire to lay with out having the other leos stress her. Aside of that out just sounds like youre waiting for her to die in which case you'd be better off giving her back to the breeder so someone a bit more experienced with laying females can try getting her back on track. Good luck.

To bad thats what they got for now. They dont seem to cramped and have their own spaces, and the second level will be in as soon as I finish it.
The tank is a 20gal long, super low level and much longer than the average 20gal. Its plenty long enough for now.
I dont have the 10 gallon anymore, I returned it to the friend who gave me the 20. I dont have anything else for her to be in right now or I would set her up away from them.
Yea I am totally waiting for her to die, thats why I am asking questions and waiting for a response from my friend about vet prices. Yes let me give her back to the breeder who bred her in such a poor condition in the first place, sounds like a wonderful idea. Thanks but no thanks.

Yeah could have done with out the sarcasm/attitude in your reply, and I'm familiar with a 20 long tank, 12 inches deep, 12 inches high, 30 inches long, that is NOT big enough for FOUR leos, let alone one that is/could be already in distress. The poor condition she's in is not solely the original breeders fault, your enclosure is too small with not enough hides for everyone from the pictures, theres next to nothing in that moist hide, and 1 log hide and whatever that food carton is is not sufficient for all those leos. Adding a second level isn't going to be the great cue all for all the problems you have going on there, not to mention your own statement that the one leo is not happy about all the new additions (by the way, next time a little less colorful language would be appreciated, this is a G Rated forum, thanks). You have more than 1 pregnant females in the same viv and I didn't see 1 decent most hide or lay box. Wonder why she hadn't laid... She needs to see a vet, she needs to be moved to her own stress free environment our given to someone that had the time, effort and desire to do right by her instead of just waiting for her to die like you are. Heck if that's your attitude then what difference would it make if she went back to her lousy breeder... you sure aren't doing her any favors. So with all that said, I hope you make the much needed changes and get this girl the vet care she needs. Time for a reality check, sorry.
Best of luck.

O_O THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL!

i keep my stubs in a 20 long alone an he seems cramped lol i would bump up to a 55 or 40

Kermit wrote:Yeah could have done with out the sarcasm/attitude in your reply, and I'm familiar with a 20 long tank, 12 inches deep, 12 inches high, 30 inches long, that is NOT big enough for FOUR leos, let alone one that is/could be already in distress. The poor condition she's in is not solely the original breeders fault, your enclosure is too small with not enough hides for everyone from the pictures, theres next to nothing in that moist hide, and 1 log hide and whatever that food carton is is not sufficient for all those leos. Adding a second level isn't going to be the great cue all for all the problems you have going on there, not to mention your own statement that the one leo is not happy about all the new additions (by the way, next time a little less colorful language would be appreciated, this is a G Rated forum, thanks). You have more than 1 pregnant females in the same viv and I didn't see 1 decent most hide or lay box. Wonder why she hadn't laid... She needs to see a vet, she needs to be moved to her own stress free environment our given to someone that had the time, effort and desire to do right by her instead of just waiting for her to die like you are. Heck if that's your attitude then what difference would it make if she went back to her lousy breeder... you sure aren't doing her any favors. So with all that said, I hope you make the much needed changes and get this girl the vet care she needs. Time for a reality check, sorry.
Best of luck.

I wouldnt have gotten snarky if you wouldnt have assumed things like I am waiting for her to die. Dont dish if you cant take.

Seeing as I just got her and she was in the same condition as when she was acquired, yea it kind of is his fault.
Old pictures homie, did you not read, I put in more hides and more moist hides, and yea there is plenty of stuff in the hides, just because you cant dig around and look at them in a picture doesnt change the facts.
There are 4 more regular hides and one large tub hide for them now, along with a second smaller moist hide like pictured. Sorry I didnt take 30 minutes to take pictures and show you every single thing I did in the last day or so to the tank.
Well second level and extra hides will have to suffice until I can get another tank or two, so whatever offer advice or dont reply.
She wasnt at first, and the pictures of her "angry" were from the first few minutes, she doesnt seem "stressed" or "angry" anymore and i am in there with them many times throughout the day.
Again, pointing out the hide issue is pointless seeing as I did what......? Put more in already.

Well thanks for voicing your opinion, they are awesome huh, and if I can get the money to take her to the vet or get a free exam I will, because I wasnt going to take these but due to them being a friends I did, I had my own things all set up and they were fine, but being nice I took them, and now I am making the best until I can get a new tank or two.

You really make me laugh, assume and make comments about things I have addressed and already changed but whatever hope YOU feel better about your lack of advice or information given. Yea if I can get her to a vet I will, but if I cant then I cant, she wasnt my original pet and has essentially been dumped on me, and trust me, my inadequate 20gallon, with numerous moist and dry hides, and food throughout the day, fresh water and heat is much better than her tub she was in with the breeder or my friend

ShawnFennox wrote:O_O THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL!

Thank you

Drip55 wrote:i keep my stubs in a 20 long alone an he seems cramped lol i would bump up to a 55 or 40

I will when I can, I only had the two at first and was going to get a larger tank for the two this month, but then these two extra females came along and thats all I have available for right now.
Hopefully something on CL opens up close for not a ridiculous price and I can get something else longer quickly.

Well she is going to stay with someone who breeds balls who can set her up in her own stress free environment all by herself, since she doesnt appear to have any other issues, she will be kept there until she lays and gets a little fatter.
Hopefully by then I can have a nicer, large setup for her and her tank mate. If not she may be rehomed or kept by my friend.

Good for you for placing her somewhere where she'll be on her own. Hopefully your ball breeder friend has good working knowledge of leo care. personally tho I honestly don't understand why you just didn't ask your other friend for that 10 gallon back for a while until you got this girl past this hurdle. I honestly don't always understand why people can't/don't stand up and do the right thing when they have an animal in distress altho I will say getting them to a (hopefully) knowledgeable person that has the means and desire to help that animal is certainly a step in the right direction.

Kermit wrote:Good for you for placing her somewhere where she'll be on her own. Hopefully your ball breeder friend has good working knowledge of leo care. personally tho I honestly don't understand why you just didn't ask your other friend for that 10 gallon back for a while until you got this girl past this hurdle. I honestly don't always understand why people can't/don't stand up and do the right thing when they have an animal in distress altho I will say getting them to a (hopefully) knowledgeable person that has the means and desire to help that animal is certainly a step in the right direction.

Yes she is well rounded in the majority of herps. I would have but he has the male in it that he decided to keep, he figured with less animals, less work, less stress and less chance of neglect, his male is very hand tame and he is ADHD to the max so one animal is enough for him. I would love to have a second tank and have the two tank mate females by themselves and have the pair I originally had in their own space but right now I dont have a spare tank. I have 3 tanks in house but all full of fish lol
I was and am doing the best I can with the means available, I dont want her to die, and after looking at the things that could be wrong she is probably stressed out to much to lay, or absorbing her eggs, and I wanted to have them separated in the first place but tank space didnt provide that option. If I had a spare heater I would set her and her tank mate up in a 45 gallon tub for the time being but I dont have a heater or heating pad
Also if I had the cash she would have gone to the vet, but she was essentially dumped on me and I dont have extra money to do that at the moment. She is in good hands, she will be the only gecko in house and will have her own area with no one or nothing to bother her, so if she chooses to lay, she can if not she can absorb them and gain some weight in piece. I wish I personally could have helped her or done better by her in my home but I cant and at least I know that and am going to let her stay with someone who has the rack space to let her mend up, and so I can get a tank set up for her and her friend to stay in together.
I hope that suffices for you, didnt mean to offend you with my "unwillingness to care for her" because I assure you I did not mean that..

It sounds like your doing the best for her that you can, that is admirable. Hopefully your friend can help her get things all sorted out with her health, that'll give you a chance to get things together on your end do you can bring her back if/when things are better. No offense taken here, so no worries its all good

They're cute

*Edited by Kermit*

Kermit wrote:It sounds like your doing the best for her that you can, that is admirable. Hopefully your friend can help her get things all sorted out with her health, that'll give you a chance to get things together on your end do you can bring her back if/when things are better. No offense taken here, so no worries its all good

I am honestly trying, and sometimes thats all you can do. Thank your for understanding Kermit. I value this site, its information, and its members because its smaller, more tight nit and seems to have the best facts and most knowledgeable members.
She is doing much better, and is still her perky walk around looking all over self, so thats good. She said she is eating, pooing, drinking and looks very healthy aside from her being extremely gravid and having such a thin tail. I really hope she gets more weight on her soon, I dont care if she ever has the eggs honestly if it means she will suffer.
I made a hide with more flat belly laying space out of a tampon box tonight its got 2 holes and some ripped up paper towel inside and they really seem to love it, of course they ALL try and cram inside it. They all claimed it I guess.
I have a question, a friend of mine was asking why I dont use newspaper for the bottom of the tank, and he said the ink is now mostly made from soy and it shouldnt hurt them, is that true? Or is it still to risky to use that? I use paper towel/toilet paper for the bottom as of now until I can get some of that cool reptile carpet.
Thank you again for helping me out the lot of you

Marnie wrote:They're cute

*Edited by Kermit*

Thank you

You're welcome and thank you for valuing our community. We work hard to make it how it is. As far as the newspaper goes, yes most ink is safe but he problem lies in the fumes that are discharged when the paper gets wet/humid and theink getting all over your leo is just ugly imo. You never want to expose your leos to aeromatic substrait such as cedar pine or anythng that emits fumes. Also that repti carpet it also a no no. Not only does it snag little teeth and nails but it is a bacteria factoy. Tile really is best or paper towels. The tampax box is a nifty idea but again, printed paper, not great. You can pick up disposeable colored tupperware dishes for under 4$ for a 3 pak, just cut a hole in the side... voila instant safe hide. They're all likely packing into the tampax box as now it is the best hide, the highest resource value item, they're all gonna want to be there so watch for attitudes between them vieing for the best hide.

You're welcome for the edit. That's what staff is for, making sure the boards stay friendly and probems are addressed so the membership doesnt have to take matters in hand. If you ever see a disturbing post please report it either via the report system (that ! That is in every post box) or with a link via pm so that we can address it.

Very beautiful Pookie congrats

Kermit wrote:You're welcome and thank you for valuing our community. We work hard to make it how it is. As far as the newspaper goes, yes most ink is safe but he problem lies in the fumes that are discharged when the paper gets wet/humid and theink getting all over your leo is just ugly imo. You never want to expose your leos to aeromatic substrait such as cedar pine or anythng that emits fumes. Also that repti carpet it also a no no. Not only does it snag little teeth and nails but it is a bacteria factoy. Tile really is best or paper towels. The tampax box is a nifty idea but again, printed paper, not great. You can pick up disposeable colored tupperware dishes for under 4$ for a 3 pak, just cut a hole in the side... voila instant safe hide. They're all likely packing into the tampax box as now it is the best hide, the highest resource value item, they're all gonna want to be there so watch for attitudes between them vieing for the best hide.

You're welcome for the edit. That's what staff is for, making sure the boards stay friendly and probems are addressed so the membership doesnt have to take matters in hand. If you ever see a disturbing post please report it either via the report system (that ! That is in every post box) or with a link via pm so that we can address it.

Yea I wouldnt want anything to get on their skin, its much more thin and seems like even if it was natural inks it would still irritate their skin. Do you think it would be okay to use it on the poo side of the tank, the water and humid hides are away from that area so its not going to get wet? I dont plan on doing it and I like the way I use TP or PT right now, its softer on them and doesnt have any inks, just wondering, seems sturdier and less likely to leak through to the glass or get soggy and stepped in and stuff.
I figured as much on the cedar or pine, that stuff isnt good for anything that I know of lol plus I cant stand the smell, it would be horrible to be locked in a tank/cage with that crap!
Really? I thought the carpet was a better idea.. sucky.. I wouldnt want to snag their nails or teeth, that doesnt seem fun for them. I do like the tile idea, I am a fish keeper and a lot of people in the community use the tiles for tank bottoms, its a good idea but unless its super thin the heat might not come through so easy, unless I get those laminate stick on ones that are very thin, would that work? For now I will stick with my TP and PT maybe get some of the old flooring tiles from my balcony and use those during the summer when the gecko room is much hotter and the heater will have some sun backup. Or just tile the majority and use the paper for the part with the pad so they can still get their bellies warm. Is that 100% needed or will all around heat work? I live in Phoenix and the room they are in is in the sun from 12-dark and its very warm in there, usually hot if I uncover the black window curtain, the lowest during the summer with the window covered is 80-84, lowest uncovered window temp is 87 and its usually in the low sometimes mid 90s, but if the outside temp is in the 110-115 range its upper 90s and usually by then every window is completely covered.

About the tampon box, the inside is not colored and I put paper towel with double sided tape around the outside areas so if they want to climb on its easier, would that be enough to keep the skin from coming into to much contact with the cardboard or is it still bad? I did use a very cool little plastic tupper ware cheese container thing and made a cool one gecko hide for Shelby because she loves this one section and I felt bad she was right out in the open with no hide, she was always being disturbed by me when I came into the room and its bright because of the window and I didnt want to hurt her eyes, she loves it so much and very much prefers that to any other non heated hide. At the beginning of the month I am going shopping and will stop by the 99cent store and grab a few of the more appropriate tupper ware containers for little hides, they all now have their own preferred hides, Shiro is in the rock looking thing by himself usually, Shelby in her cheese thing, and Char in the tampon box, they seem much more content, when I cleaned the tank the other night thats when I took out some old ones and put in the few new ones and they really enjoyed exploring and their super worms before picking their spots and hanging out until I left lol there wasnt any attitude so far, I think Char and Shelby have calmed down, they dont hang out in hides together but they havnt shown any irritation or angry looks towards each other, Shiro does seem quite the pimp though, Char is really stuck to him and likes being in his hide in the early part of the day.
Sorry I asked so many questions and kind of babbled, figured I might as well ask why I am up!

scruffy1110 wrote:Very beautiful Pookie congrats

Thank you so much! I will be getting some new pictures of them, specifically Char so I can see if she has put on any weight since last time, she is taking after Shelby and is becoming quite the chow hound, her and Shelby are first to come out when they hear me put worms in.