Genetic Debate

SPLIT FROM BABY ID THREAD

that would be awesome if it were a tug snow! i like them so much better than the mack snows, only because they usually have less yellow, usually none at all. but you also have to be sure that it is an actuall tug phantom, some people are making phantoms that are not the true phantom, just like alot of people claim to have sunglows, when tug originated the sunglow and in my opinion...the only "real" sunglows are the ones that have the genuine urban produced ingredients. if it is a "real" tug phantom, that is awesome! ....not saying it is not, but like i said, alot of people call animals by a trade name to get better market value out of them, so it is just a simple word of caution, thats all. i know people that are selling what they are calling sunglows, but they have NO urban bloodline "ingredients" in them, so in my mind, those are not sunglows... not saying they are not nice animals, or that they are not worth alot of money, but they are NOT sunglows....i have always been kind of a stickler about this, but i feel that if someone worked for years to produce their own line of animal, then someone else shouldnt sell his animals for that line...unless they use all that persons bloodline, and correct "ingredients" to produce thier own "sunglows, phantoms, or what ever".....and im not saying that if it is another line of phantom, that it is any less valuable, they should just be called something else. it does look like a baby snow though, and a beautiful one at that, nice work jolene!!!! i want it!

Nah the sunlow thing was ages ago though... Nowadays a sunglow IS just a SHTCT Albino.
Its like saying all raptors have to have come from ron tremper... which they did originally... but things change. Sorry Rick.

one way to find out! keep them and test breed them for hets and then you will know for sure. either way, that is an awesome looking baby and i would be happy to have "him" in my collection! ...and that is saying alot, because i hold pretty high standards! and i am not one to put down normals or lesser grade animals, i love them all. and i was once at the point where i could not afford anything BUT normals and "lower end" animals...but i loved them all the same. i am just fortunate enough through years of hard work and breeding, and alot of trading up, that i can now have a few nicer critters. but i would keep that one for sure, it is really killer looking!

im not saying they have to COME from the originator, but they have to use the original bloodlines, that simple. if not, they shouldnt be called the original name...they should be called what ever they are. a sunglow is a tug line animal, the others are SHTCT albinos...that simple. to me it is anyways. i have been doing this way too long to change my beliefs. if you or others wanna think that way, that is fine, and i think no less of anyone for doing so...but to me if you are going to call it a sunglow, it should be a true sunglow from the original line, same with RAPTORS, or what ever, it is not fair to the people who worked years and years to create something and come up with a trade name, just to have someone else " steal " the name and use it, if it is not the actual line it is being labeled as. how would you like it if you worked for ten years to produce a specific look or color(or what have you) and come up with your own name...only to have someone else who has never done anything but bred similar animals, sell his animals as"your line" only to make more money...you wouldnt, it is lying in my eyes, no matter how you say it, or twist the lingo, it is being dis~honest and lying...that simple.

But Raptor and Sunglow are not trade names or the names of the breeders line. It is the name they have given to the combination of morphs.

Because they did it first, they named it. But it isnt their line or their speciality.

If only tug Sunglows can be called Sunglows then i can make an SHTCT albino and sell it as a Jahoolaboo, but everyone will know its a sunglow. Because that is what the combination of these genetic traits has been named.

Thats my views on it, i hope you can see my points. As i can certainly see yours, i just don't think sunglow is the best example.

A tangerine tornado is an example of an actual breeders own line of a morph. Anyone else who makes a really bright tangerine, its a bright tangerine not a tangerine tornado, because tangerine tornado is Hisss's (i think) line of tornado's. but sunglow is the name of the combination, not the breeders own line.

i totally see your points, 100%...and when i talked to craig about the sunglow line, the way he explained it to me...he coined the morph from his bloodline and the sunglow name is his line of that morph(and he was the first to do that combo). and craig also originated the tangerine tornado. and i feel the same about that name, it should only be used if it is HIS line of tang tornado...another great example of what i am talking about! and i do agree with you, but the sunglow is actually tug's line of that morph(which he originated), hense me feeling the way i feel about it. and he also created and coined his line "phantom"...so those particular morphs i think he should have rights to the names. now on the other hand, if i were to say the same thing about a simple tangerine, i would be incorrect. but i think since he came up with the combos, and named them, he should have rights to those names...but i agree with your explanation and the way you look at it. i think if you go to his site and look in the collection section in leopard geckos and read some of the morph readings, you may see where i am coming from as far as the discussed morphs go. i do see your points though, but still feel the same about it.

Yeah valid points Rick.
I just feel its been a long time and i suppose things change, the first combination morph ever produced in leo's i bet its been done by loads of different breeders but still being given the same name, i think it is just down to the fact that everyone eventually comes to know an SHTCT Albino as a sunglow and that becomes the common name for the combo.

I have to agree on the phantom though.

There is a difference between a phantom and a TUG Snow Sunglow for sure.


In my eyes, if say for example no one had ever put together Bell Albino and Enigma, and i did it first; and i called it the 'Benigma' lol. Anyone else who puts together a bell and enigma can still call it a benigma in my eyes, because thats what i've name that combnation. I have made my mark by making up the name, and having the first ever ones. But i'm happy for others to use my name for it.
I guess others might feel differently.

lol, benigma...i agree with that. just to me certain names can be used in a "generic" manner, while in my eyes, others should be kept pure and called what the line they are, thats all....but i see where you are coming from and agree with what you have to say. hey, we may not agree 100% on everything, like maybe here...but we ARE on the same page! and i also agree that once a certain combo is around for a while, it may be used a little more "loosely"...i think there are just certain names that should remain as specific bloodlines. like my sunglows came directly from craig, so they are true suns, where my buddy "billy bob" may have the same traits in a combo, i just dont call those sunglows, but that is just my way of looking at it. i dont think other animals with the same traits are any less valuable, just not a real sunglow to me....oh well, we all look at things a little different i guess.

Agreed with you Rick, just personal views.
Some breeders may also feel a bit differently about the name they coined being used by others, personally i wouldnt be too bothered once i had it written up on leopard gecko wiki haha.

But some great points you made, great discussion, thanks.
It always great to hear other sides.

no need for the thanks, just expressing my views, as were you..but we both have valid points and our own ideas on different things. i dont think either of us are wrong, it is just how each of us see it, thats all. but good points on both sides. i always enjoy hearing(or reading) others' points and views on things. i am pretty open minded on things, and will always give people their peice on expressing how they feel...its good for ya sometimes i think. i personally would not mind if someone else used a name that i coined, especially if it were just a combo with no specific bloodlines, but if i had a specific line with discearning characteristics, and these were detrimental in coming up with the specific characteristics of the said coined name (that were possibly the reason for a specific name) i would expect anyone calling a morph my coined name,to be using the exact bloodlines i was using, especially if they were my own line of a specific trait used to create the new morph(just as an example..tug snow< because it is not compatable with the mack snow>and is dominant instead of incomplete dominant like the mack snow~of which obviously neither are my line) just to be more specific on a new breeder specific morph name....and not just a combo with regular morphs. hopefully this makes sence to you...