what is wrong with Sabor?

Care Questionaire:

About your leo:
- Sex-Male
- Age & Weight-10 months, 47 grams
- Morph (if you know)-High Yellow/Carrot tail (only know the Visual Morph, not het or hidden)
- How long have you owned your leo-4 months
- Where was he/she obtained (Pet store, breeder, wild caught, etc.)-Petco
- Is your leo wild caught or captive bred-CB

A) Health/History
- How often do you handle your leo-Only for cage cleaning day
- Is your leo acting any different today? If so how -Same as the last month

- Has he/she had any problems in the past, if so please describe.Not untill a month ago
B) Fecals
- Describe-Do they look any different than normal-Normal
- When was the last time he/she went-3PM Central Time
C) Problem
- Please briefly describe the problem/issue you are experiencing and how long it has been going on-Refusing to leave humid hide, actually under the moss and not on top, "screams" when i open the cage to clean water daily, every time he tries to catch a meal worm he misses, i have to move it under his nose at the last second so he CAN eat it. He also stares up at the cage top all night long when i remove him from the hide. This has gone on for about a month now, ever since i switch my three males from a communal to seperate cages due to the larger two starting to fight.


Housing:
A) Enclosure
- Size-10 Gal
- Type (ex. glass tank, screen enclosure, tub kept)-Tub
- Type of substrate (sand, vinyl tiles, ceramic/stone tiles, etc.)-Vinyl
- Hides (how many, location and type (hothide, humid hide, regular hide etc.)-5, 2 hot, 2 cool, 1 Humid half way between hot and cool
B) Heating
- What is your main heat source (heat bulbs, under tank heat mat etc) **Please include the brand and size of your UTH if you use one**- Heat Cable-under tank
- What are your cage temps (hot side and cool side)96hot, 88 cool
- Method of regulating your heat source (thermostat, rheostat, light dimmer etc.)Unplug cable if it goes over the "ideal" temps, but that hasnt happened as of yet
- What are you using to measure your temps (probe thermometer, infrared lazer tempo gun, stick on temp gauge, etc)-Probe Thermometer
- Do you have any lights (describe type (red,blue, basking etc) and cycle duration)-Blue, Night
C) Cage mates
- How many (males, females)-0
- Describe health, or previous problems of cage mates-N/A

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet
- What are you feeding-Meal Worms, 3 Wax worms once a week
- How often are you feeding your gecko and how much per feeding?-every 2 days, 10-12 Meal worms depending on how much i can get him to actually eat
- How are you feeding (hand fed, tongs/tweezers, left in dish, ect)-on ground, using a steril plastic "stick" to move the meal worms under his nose so he can actually eat.
B) Supplements
- What calcium suppliment are you using (please include brand)-ReptiCal Calcium
- What multi vitimin are you using (please include brand)ReptoCal +D3, it is also a Multi Vitimin.
-How are you implimenting your suppliment program (how often do you dust with each suppliment, do you leave calcium in the tank 24/7 etc.)- normal Calcium is left in a bottle cap 24/7 Multi Vitimin is dusted onto the meal worms once a week.
- What are you gutloading your feeder insects with-Celery, Carrots, Letice, Some times fruits like Oranges, and Berries IE strawberry and black berry, and OatMeal as there "sub"



I did take him to see the Petco Vet who looked him over for free, they told me there is nothing Physically wrong with him that he must have just "gone crazy" They said he is a healthy looking Leopard Gecko from what all they can tell. No impaction, no eye infection, healthy weight and size, healthy "fatty" tail. not even any stuck shed at all.

Hmmm, this almost sounds to me like Enigma Syndrome. And as for the Vet, I doubt your leopard gecko has "just gone crazy" The missing the worms is not uncommon with Enigma Syndrome, as well as the starting at the top of the cage for hours on end. This is called Star Gazing. I have two that do it so much that at times they look up too high and fall over backwards. It is also possible that this was triggered by removing him from his cagemates because at times change can bring on the Enigma syndrome symptoms. For more information on the syndrome you should be able to google it and find some good information.

Cool temp is 88??? That must be why he is not leaving his moist hide. That is way too hot. He needs a gradient of at least 10 degrees. His cool side should be in the high 70's, no higher. Lower it immediately.

I signed up quickly just because I read the post and noticed the temp:) They will not eat if it's too hot as well as too cold.

the temp used to be at 72 on cool side, a breeder friend in Canada told me to raise the temp because he wasnt eating with it at 72 on cool side. he does still attempt to eat, but i did already lower it back to 72 now. still the same issue. Is there any way you can revert enigma syndrome? or make it less? should i attempt to put him back with his brother and just leave my giant separate? or just leave him how he is and continue helping him feed? i dont want it to get worse, and if there is no way to make it lessen any ill leave him how he is and just do what i can to make sure he eats.

There is no way to keep the enigma syndrome at bay. You can reduce it by trying to keep down her stress but that is all. As for the temperatures the warm side needs to be higher for them to digest food. If they do not have proper belly heat they cannot digest and therefore they will not eat.

his temp is already at 96F on hot side, it has to be higher then that? all i did was lower his cool side. i was told by some one to add heat because she said that 72-74 cool side was way to low. but after reading that 88 is to high i removed the heat off his cool side to let it get back to room temp on that side.

That is a perfect temperature on the warm side.

as long as the cool side does not go below 65 i would not worry, as long as your hot side is at the proper temps. it gets really cold at night, where leopards live in the wild...so as long as your warm end gets to the right temps, dont change anything....let the lizard decide where she is comfortable, and dont try to decide for her. i think people have a pre~concieved notion on what they want there tank temps to be...and try too hard to get every inch perfect. without a tempgun and a couple thermostats on one tank, especially if it is a larger tank, that is really hard to do. as long as the temps stay in the above mentioned perameters, i wouldnt worry about it. and dont believe everything you hear...some people dont know what they are talking about...like maybe whoever told you to crank your heat up....if your hot spot is warm enough, dont worry about getting the cool side perfect. the only thing that would change that idea for me, would be if it were falling below 65. thermostats and tempguns. dont just plug your heating element into the wall...

I recently got a timer, and there is several probe therms in the tank. I use heat cable because its easier to controle the temps just by putting the cable wraps alil closer or further apart, after a week of using it, my temps stay the same, they never fluctuate.

Vinyl which has adhesive at the bottom? if so the fumes from glue can make him "crazy". I would remove them quickly and replace it with slate tiles or paper towels only temporarily. I would recommend at least a 20 gallon so that he has a better range of temperatures and adequate space. Waxworms are high in fat and should not be fed more than once a month, if that. Add crickets, silkworms and phoenix worms for a low fat variety instead.

no adhesive, its non slip. not sticky. just the ones you throw in a cabnit to keep the dishes from slipping. I also only have the mat on the cool side of the tank. the hot side has river stones

[quote="herp625"]Vinyl which has adhesive at the bottom? if so the fumes from glue can make him "crazy". I would remove them quickly and replace it with slate tiles or paper towels only temporarily. I would recommend at least a 20 gallon so that he has a better range of temperatures and adequate space. Waxworms are high in fat and should not be fed more than once a month, if that. Add crickets, silkworms and phoenix worms for a low fat variety instead.[/quotyour comment about vinyl tikes is COMPLETELY inaccurate. The glue on the back of vinyl tiles doesn't emit off gassing and doesn't even melt until well over 110*f. Gasses wouldn't make a leo "go crazy", wherever you heard that was greatly misinformed, it would kill them if they were present which is highly unlikely. I agree with jolene, this is likely a case of enigma syndrom which.can only be helped by reducing stressors like was stated. Good luck

Thank you all. But Sabor is being traded for a Tremper this week. The person i am trading has alot of exerpiance with Enigma Syndrom and im just worried with all my medical issues currently that i wouldnt be able to properly care for his increased needs. But i did search around and find some one who has alot of experiance, and currently owns three with enigma syndrom. They have a unsexed Tremper that they had purchased as a "bell" at a show when they had asked for a bell, then soon found out they where ripped off and have no need for a tremper. So he will go to a good home.

No, it was not to be taken literally. lol I wrote the term crazy because that is how she described his actions in the first post "just gone crazy". I tried using vinyl tiles years ago, but I end up ripping them out because I could smell them by just sitting in from of the tank. I rather not take any chances.

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Well it's too late now, but I just realized you described him to be high yellow. The screaming is seen in fear (normal behavior).
He would not leave his moist hide and you had temperatures of 88-96 side .
So basically no cool side. A behavior seen under heat stress. One of my geckos would stare up at the blue bulb (as in I do not like it) and you had a blue bulb. Once I removed it he stopped looking up.
The fact that he was showing problems striking could have been a number of things for ex: vestibular disease, toxicity, hypocalcemia due to problems with absorption or even a spreading infection.

Edit: the trade is a bust the person wants to meet half way after 5pm and I can only get a ride around noon. Ill keep looking for some one to give him a better home. This is mostly due to the fact ill be having three major surgeries in the next few months and will be on bed rest for up to 3 months each with two of them and my sister in law will be helping me take care of my leos.

He has still been doing the staring and not living his hide even after lowering the cool side to room temp 75-76 and the bulb has been removed. As I said he has been to the vet and they said he is healthy no signs of infection or any thing. I am thinking it is enigma syndrome

The light in my room is very dim, i have trouble even seeing in there half the time.

he was moved to a glass tank instead of the tub. He has a cool side of 75-76 and the hot side of 94. He has a Heat cable with a probe themometer on the ground. a Non Slip Vynle mat on the cool side, rive stones on the hot side. the stones where boiled and set over night in 50/50 bleach/ water then boiled again and scrubbed and rinsed clean before added to the tank. Three sides of his tank are painted black with acrylic paint that is only on the outside and was done a year ago.

His water is changed daily, and the bowl is scrubbed under hot water every time i change it to prevent that slim build up. He has seen a vet, no infections, normal poo, Good calcium and Vitamin amount in his system, not under or over "healthy" his eyes are Clear and reacts with both so he is not blind.

Since moving him to the tank and no light his striking has gotten alil better. But he still stares up at the lid for hours when removed from his hide, This is even at night with not light except the hall light. His tank is in my room so its not much light, just a sliver from under the door. He shed last night and ate the shed like normal. Once he comes out of the "star gazing" he acts pretty much normal.

I dont know why he screams still. before he started doing all this he used to climb up onto my hand when i was cleaning his cage and just relax there.

That's unfortunate. As much as I hate the thought of rehoming reptiles due to stress, I understand your having surgery and won't be able to look after him properly. If that was not the case then I would have recommended he be seen by a qualified reptile vet instead of a Petco vet which as far as I know lack reptile knowledge. Yes, it's possible he has Enigma Syndrome, however it's best to rule out other possibilites. According to what you wrote you had 3 males housed together which
most people know it's a big NO-NO. Where they quarantined for at least 3 months? Your warm side temps were too high which could have caused problems. As you mentioned he was calm at one point and suddenly became fiesty. When reptiles are in pain or stressed you can see a change in behavior.
I agree it's best to find him a new home with someone who is able to keep a closer eye on him.

The three males housed together was because Sabor and his brother where still to younge to sex. i thought they where females up untill they both matured. I now only have two due to my sister in law going outside when she forgot my other high yellow Seph was on her shoulder, he jumped off and one of the outdoor cats ate him. I told her when she helps me after my surgeries she is absolutly not to take them out of there enclosures.

Also the two High Yellows where housed together when i got them so i kept it that way, My Tremper was housed by his self for 2 months before being put with the other two, it was done to save space, was in a 50 gallon cage wood/Wire Mesh/ and plastic

Hi,

I was online searching for shower curtains and I ran into this. I remembered vinyl was mentioned. It has been years since I ripped the ones I placed due to the smell. Of course I am not sure it would be equal, but thought I'd bring it to your attention as precaution.

http://www.naturallysavvy.com/naturally-green-faq/are-vinyl-shower-curtains-toxic

Let me know your thoughts.

Interesting read. But i recently switched both my leos to a 30 tall with lots of platforms. Now there tank has nothing but river rocks in it. the tank is divided in half so there seperated. what i used to glue in the divider and the platforms was white aquarium sealent. i let it sit outside in the shed for a full week before i switched them to it. I am happy with the new set up. and they seam to love it, they have more room to explore now, and sabor has even started acting normal. he is eating every feeding night now, and actually exploring at night.

Great! Does this include Sabor?