Help! bendy wrists and skinny tail

i am personally not familiar with that product, and if i dont know, i wont just make something up...so i cant tell you on that one, sorry

I don't know that one either Jess, sorry. I think that might be one Jordan uses so maybe he will chime in here. We have different things here in Canada

jess, as far as I know you don't have to put in a dish of pure calcium when using nutrobol because it's a complete supplement.. but Jordan will be able to give you all the answer about that

i would still offer it, even though the nutrobol may have it, they still need pure calcium from time to time. i know people who use the rapashy stuff and it is a suppliment that is PERFECT...it has the correct ratio of EVERYTHING that leos need, and those people still provide calcium. alan rapashy is one of the absolute BEST gecko guys in the world! and he developed this after over forty years of working with geckos. he has a website, just google alan rapashy and you will find it. i am actually going to switch to his stuff once this batch of calcium and vits are gone...maybe even before, it all depends on when i place my next order from the beanfarm.com...another site you should check out!!!

I used |Nutrobal, and still ended up with this problem with Rio

Thanks everyone.
I'll contact Jordan in a personal message.

I'm sorry to hear the Hollz77, with the nutrobal, there isnt any need to keep one in the enclosure if your dusting every feed, but i keep one in the enclosure with some of the less regular eaters for safety.

So only if it's a fussy or "less regular eater"?

If you were using a complete suppliment properly for your leos age then he may have an issue that is preventing proper calcium absorption even with the appropriate amounts of D3. It could be that your leo carries a stronger genetic propencity for MBD than another leo on the same suppliment regimine. I would suggest trying the recovery program that sam laid out for ya, and with a leo that has obvious signs of MBD, offering more calcium isn't a bad thing unless you're not offering enough D3 suppliment (which is what the UV light therapy provides naturally rather than thru synthasized suppliment). Too much calcium and not enough D3 to help it be absorbed can lead to calcium deposits in the joints and on long bones called psudo-gout (not good), or with calcium bubbles in the arm pits (basically a storage area, no big deal). Some leos with mbd will show these growths on their hands or there abouts as they are ingesting the calcium but just not absorbing it. I do believe there are enzyme tests your vet can do to determine if psudo-gout/gout (a build up of uric acid in the joints) is an issue. In the meanwhile don't use any spinach to gutload feeders. Spinach has an enzyme that binds to calcium and prevents your leo from absorbing it. I would stick with potato apple and carrot maybe some red roamine, or kale.

Hopefully after a couple of weeks on sam's recovery plan you'll start to see some positive results with reversing the mbd. Keep up the good work

Sorry kel i lost you at about the 5th word. Brief summary?

That's about as brief as it gets hon... it could be a vitimin absorbtion issue, not dusting appropriately, or a higher genetic propencity for MBD than your average leo.

I'm sorry. I don't understand. So it's ok to leave the dish as long as you use neutrobol?

Its ok to leave the dish as long as you are making sure the leo is ingesting enough D3 to absorb the calcium they're taking in. OR you can forgoe the calcium dish and add a liquid calcium to the water or give the leo drops directly to avoid that problem like sam suggested.

Some leos will still be prone to it. Some will do fine with no extra supplement(which is not recommended but it happens with some) and some will next extra extra supplement. It is just like people, they are all different.

BTW, I know about the dangers of under supplementation with calcium but are there any with over supplementation that we need to be aware of? Sometimes too much of a good thing can also be bad.

Yes the dangers are already mentioned in this thread. Psudo-gout would new the biggest issue but if you suppliment the proper amount of D3 with higher levels of calcium you should be able to avoid that. Psudo-gout is calcium deposits in the joints when the calcium can't be absorbed because of lack of D3 (usually) but some leos can just be prone to absorbtion issues regardless of proper suppliments simply because of genetic fault or external reasons such as gutloading feeders with spinach which has a chemical that binds to calcium making it almost impossible to absorb.

Ok, so anyone who owns a leo should do whateva they can to avoid MBD by giving correct supplementation. And from the answers in this thread I am led to believe that certain leos may develop MBD regardless of correct supplementation. So, can someone please tell me what the early warning signs are for MBD? What should one look out for?

signs of MBD are
~ Rubbery/folded limbs
~ soft jaw(rubber jaw) that will stop them eating
later signs
~ sometimes limbs become swollen and painful
~ bloating & constipation

jenni, i think it all has to do with the start of the leopard geckos life and the quality of food and suppliments that the animals starts off life with. so if you get a leopard from a good breeder, it will almost always stay healthy unless the proper suppliments are not offered. i also believe if you get an animal that has not be kept under optimal conditions, if caught early enough, you can get it on the right track. i think it is POSSIBLE for any leopard to have issues with supplimentation, but with healthy started animals, i would say the percentages are in the single digits as far as animals that will have problems.(unless not cared for properly) so there is always a possibility, but if you start out with healthy stock, and suppliment correctly, there is little chance of ever having problems, in my opinion.

I know that I am supplementing correctly (thanks to this forum) but I notice that when my leos are sleeping on a rock or the paper towel on top of the heating pad, their legs are bent in all different directions and their wrists are sometimes bent backwards. It looks weird but somehow comfortable. They have no problem walking around (even running) or climbing up onto things (even something upright) and they are also able to "stand" and hold their body weight off the ground for any given length of time. I am hoping that leo's just have good joint flexibility and its not the start of anything serious.

Yeah all leo's sleep in weird bent/sprawled out positions.

yeah this is perfectly normal as Jordan said
I was wondering about that ages ago because my banana sleeps with her front legs completely facing backwards and all twisted lol

Yeah, most people think my leo's are dead when their sleeping, haha.

hahaha yeah the first time i saw banana asleep i was sooo scared that she had died :O ... but she jumped up as soon as I opened the doors of her viv.

Now she is used to me, she doesn't even wake up when i go into their tank

Not to bump an old topic, but I captured the "broken leg laying down" look of my leo Toothless.