Pole for lighting

Hi,

Can you be more specific? UVB long tube or UVA basking bulb? What size is the enclosure?

I have to vote no under these circumstances due to the following reason. The smalllest UVB tube as far as I am aware is 15in. That means it would cover more than half the enclosure. It is said UVB can penetrate through some hides and so I feel it's not safe. It would be equivalent to a person sitting under constant sun every day which is dangerous.

jessmonster wrote:Please read my topic lighting before deciding whether to go for yes or no.

so what did you decide? my vet told me to but I have not bought them yet. he said an hour a day tho.
I found this in another forum but i don't think they will like if I put another forum link so I copied and pasted and so you can't see the diagrams.
Understanding Calcium, UVB, and Vitamin D3 in Lizards

Why?:
This particular topic has a tendency of sounding Greek or Chinese to many beginner reptile owners or even experienced ones who get a migraine looking at technical jargon. As a result this topic has a tendency of leading to misinformation and it's important to prevent this. Unlike most pets out there reptile owners are not granted the luxury of a forgiving husbandry. The adaptability of cats and dogs to their environment over reptiles afford pet owners the choice to engage in a more thorough understanding of their animal. Choosing not too usually won't severely compromising the longevity of its health. With reptiles this is not the case. Their sensitivity to light and heat place a greater responsibility upon their owners to pay attention to details when providing an adequate home.

[Disclaimer]I do not doubt that someone with a science background could critique this article and provide additional clarity, but this article is not intended for scholarly sourcing, but merely as a basic guide to help most reptile owners avoid common errors in their husbandry.

Breakdown:
As an attempt to aid in the flow of this article, a glossary will be provided at the bottom. Words in Red can be found at the bottom of the end of the article with proper definitions.

What is the relationship between UVB, Calcium, and Vitamin D3?:
UVB rays aid in the photosynthesis of vitamin D3, which is then used to properly metabolize calcium. In short the process can be remembered as follows:
UVB->Vitamin D3->Calcium = Healthy Bones

Who applies:
Pretty much any Diurnal reptile applies to the importance of UVB radiation; however its additional importance to various Nocturnal reptiles should not be underestimated. Just because a reptile is active at night and not exposed to long durations of UVB does not trivialize its overall importance. Many nocturnal reptiles are carnivorous, and therefore obtain vitamin D3 through the digested liver of their prey, but this process does not always guarantee sufficient vitamin D3 levels. Some nocturnal reptiles will naturally compensate for this by sleeping in areas exposed to daylight (even for a short period) attaining the proper UV radiation it needs. Other reptiles will actively bask in the early or late hours of the day while reserving night hours for foraging and hunting. If you own a nocturnal reptile it would be to your own benefit and your reptile's to find out if it is one of these nocturnal species. At the end of he day a couple minutes of your time could add a couple years onto your reptile's life.

What is UVB radiation?
To understand what UVB rays are, we should first look at the electromagnetic spectrum. To avoid the risk of engaging in any scientific jargon, and for the sake of what's important to reptiles, it will suffice to define the electromagnetic spectrum as the full range of energy emitted by the sun.<br>

Here is a diagram of the energy emitted by our sun...<br>

http://engineering.curiouscatblog.ne...ta-is-a-color/

This is usually where people will get frustrated with the language and give up. In reality there is no reason to get discouraged, because most of this information can be discarded for the sake of what's important to this particular article. So let's gut the none essentials from this picture.

As the diagram indicates frequency and wavelength have a negative correlation; however these measurements are not pertinent to our goal, so they can be removed.


Y-rays (Gamma), X-rays, microwaves, radio waves, and long radio waves are not pertinent to our discussion either so they can be eliminated as well.

This is our final image, much more simplified. In retrospect to the discussion of Vitamin D3, the visible spectrum and Infrared(IR) could be eliminated too, but they do have importance to reptiles so it's better to explain them.

UV rays: these are the UVB and UVA rays emitted from the sun. It also contains the highly dangerous UVC rays, but thankfully they are blocked by the Earth's ozone layer. UVA is not important for vitamin D3 synthesis, but most commercial bulbs that provide UVB will provide UVA as well, not to mention UVA radiation improves the overall physiological well-being of your reptile: ie a happy lizard equals a fun lizard to watch.
Visible Spectrum: these are the rays that animate visual color to all living things. In retrospect it makes up such a tiny portion of the suns energy, but a full visible spectrum can be vital to seasonal and mating behaviors.
*On the commercial market, most daylight bulbs will combine UV rays and visible light, which will be covered more thoroughly later.
Infrared: these rays are what produce heat.

What is UVB radiation? Con't:
Now that the electromagnetic spectrum has been explained and simplified we can focus on what's most important to us in this article, UVB rays. In the wild reptiles suffice their UVB requirements through natural sunlight. To give a general idea of how affective the sun is; 4 hours of natural sunlight can match the UVB exposure of an entire week under most artificial bulb sold in stores. So what does this mean?
The technical explanation:
"UVB reacts with the precursor of vitamin D, 7-dehydrocholestrol, in the skin to produce provitamin D3. Depending on heat and the aid of mechanism in the skin, provitamin D3 is coverted into vitamin D3 itself. The liver and kidneys transform vitamin D3 into its active form, a hormone (1,25, hydroxy-vitamin D) that regulates calcium metabolism."
Reptile Lighting Guide, Exo Terra, Hagen Inc, Montreal, Canada: 2011, pg 10.

The simple explanation:
UVB rays are absorbed into the skin of your reptile which aids in the overall production of Vitamin D3. This particular vitamin is essential for metabolizing calcium, which is in turn essential for your reptiles healthy bones. Just try to remember...
UVB->Vitamin D3->Calcium = Healthy Bones

Are UVB rays the only natural source of Vitamin D3?:
No, Vitamin D3, as suggested above, can also be obtained through the digested livers of its prey. However, as stated above, this is not always an adequate source for D3, therefore UVB is still essential to carnivorous reptiles.

Can only Vitamin D3 metabolize Calcium?:
No, Vitamin D2 can also metabolize calcium, but it is far less affective. Vitamin D2 is found in plants, and the only natural alternative for metabolizing calcium in reptiles other than Vitamin D3. As a result UVB rays are even more essential to vegetarian repiles.

So what can go wrong?:
As the process indicates, a lack of UVB will result in a lack of Vitamin D3, which in turn will result in a lack of metabolized calcium. The final result is a reptile with very weak bone density referred to a metabolic bone disease. Additional symptoms are/and not limited too: lethargic behavior, tremors, fatigue, and swelling. Secondary problems can occur like broken bones or choking from weakened jawbones used to swallow.

Females Beware:
Many female reptiles will deposit eggs even without the presence of a male counterpart. These eggs are infertile, but the calcium depletion used to produce the eggs is still the same. Therefore female reptiles need even additional calcium during these periods, making the need for Vitamin D3 even more essential to their overall health.

Why not Crank the UVB?
There are probably several reasons that go beyond my comprehension but I will try my best to explain. The most obvious explanation would be radiation poisoning. Mother nature is more experienced at regulating UV rays and protecting us from its dangerous effects than we are.

(1)Ozone Layer: helps filter dangerous UV levels down to acceptable levels.
(2)Longitude/Latitude/Altitude/Earth's-rotation all contribute in a range of continuously fluctuating UV levels. UV gradually
(3)The dense canopy of foliage filters UV exposure in tropical habitats.
*at the end of the day; intensity cannot substitute fluctuation. Just because 4 hours of natural sunlight can equal an entire week of artificial UVB light, does not mean cranking the UV rays will improve its effectiveness. There are simply too many filtration factors that are too difficult to emulate in an artificial habitat.

Why not load up on Vitamin D3?:
Completely regulating vitamin D3 by supplements is plausible and would eliminate UVB rays from the equation, but (to my knowledge) it's a far more demanding responsibility than simply having UVB lighting. UVB deficiencies can lead to MBD, but it is not the inherent cause. The true cause of MBD is a lack of calcium, so in truth, anything that can lead to this should be treated with equal caution. Excessive levels of vitamin D3 can cause kidney damage which will in turn impede calcium levels the same UVB deficiencies would. When strictly sourcing vitamin D3 from supplements the owner must be careful not to overdose D3 as well as under-dose.

That is a very long informative post peach but a couple things to remember when reading it are, leos aren't carnivores, aren't diurnal, and are supplemented with D vitamins. Usually only when mbd is present its light therapy recommended at only a couple hours a day, not for a full day cycle again because of the risk of overdose.

Thanks for the info, definitely good food for thought.

Kermit wrote:That is a very long informative post peach but a couple things to remember when reading it are, leos aren't carnivores, aren't diurnal, and are supplemented with D vitamins. Usually only when mbd is present its light therapy recommended at only a couple hours a day, not for a full day cycle again because of the risk of overdose.

Thanks for the info, definitely good food for thought.

But there fall under the same caterogory because the only diffrence is the source of meat- one only eats insects, but that's not even true because pinkies are mammals and geckos(insectivore) eat them. meat is meat right?

No more questions for today kermit, I don't want to get on your nerves. lol

peach75 wrote:
Why not load up on Vitamin D3?:
Completely regulating vitamin D3 by supplements is plausible and would eliminate UVB rays from the equation, but (to my knowledge) it's a far more demanding responsibility than simply having UVB lighting. UVB deficiencies can lead to MBD, but it is not the inherent cause. The true cause of MBD is a lack of calcium, so in truth, anything that can lead to this should be treated with equal caution. Excessive levels of vitamin D3 can cause kidney damage which will in turn impede calcium levels the same UVB deficiencies would. When strictly sourcing vitamin D3 from supplements the owner must be careful not to overdose D3 as well as under-dose.

The part I don't agree with is that controlling D3 intake is harder than controlling a gecko's UVB exposure. It's much easier and less demanding to teach someone how to properly supplement their geckos with multivitamins via dusting every other feeding, for an example, than it is to each someone how to 1) build a large enough tank to make UVB safe to begin with, 2) provide enough shades for the gecko to a point that the owner may not ever see their gecko, 3) make sure the owner does not have an albino or enigma, both are popular gecko morphs these days, 4) To make sure your gecko does not "forget", just think about you ever falling asleep under the sun and get burned, for a gecko to do so it would cause great harm, 5) lastly if you do provide UVB, you then have to worry about just how much D3 you are supplementing to your geckos, and just how do people really know how much your gecko is being exposed to UVB and how much or little they should dust with D3? I'm sure most people would be guessing at this point, because nobody would really know how much their gecko is really being exposed to UVB to allow vitamin D3 synthesis. So if you totally stop supplementing with D3, your gecko could end up with a lack of D3, or if you do supplement with D3, you could be overdosing your gecko.

Where as you could avoid all that above, by simply purchasing an all-in-one supplement like Repashy Calcium Plus (or Zoo Med Reptivite w/ D3, Rep-cal Herptivite w/ D3) and dust your feeders with it 2-3x a week.

MBD, while a common occurrence, are usually a result from irresponsible breeders that breed malnourished females, which in turn getting a weak hatchling that are born with MBD. MBD also is a result of misinformed owners who get bad advice from pet store employees and "experts" that usually assume someone knows how to properly care for leopard geckos. People recommending UVB automatically assume someone else knowing just exactly how to build a terrarium fit for UVB exposure. You ever go to Petco/Petsmart and see those Zilla "kits"? There's one with a leopard gecko picture printed on it, where new leopard gecko hobbyist may purchase and assume it's got everything a leopard gecko needs. It's called the "desert" kit.

Guess what's in it? A 10 gallon tank, a day & night bulb, repti carpet, and a stick on thermometer. Or maybe we could upgrade them to the "deluxe" edition of the desert kit, and guess what's in it? A 20 gallon tank, a day & night dome light fixtures, repti carpet, stick on thermometer, and 1 hide. Yes, ONE hide. These are the things that pet store employees are recommending to new leopard gecko owners. I know that for a fact because when I first started into this hobby, I bought a kit just like that, and was told by a reptile expert in the store it would be perfect for leopard geckos. "Oh yeah turn the white light on during the day, then the black light on at night, it'll be perfect for your leopard gecko".

...

This is why I have such a big problem with folks recommending UVB these days as most people don't bother going through the whole details of how to properly house a leopard gecko with UVB exposure. Yes UVB can be beneficial, we all live under a sun. But there's a lot to go through to make sure a captive raised leopard gecko can safely and comfortably live in a small enclosure with forced UVB exposure. Anyways, just wanting to add my opinion and my 2 cents The more information people can read the better. While peach75's post is a very informative post explaining the benefits of UVB, it does not however go through any details on how a leopard gecko owner should properly setup an enclosure with UVB exposure. As a result, some new leopard gecko enthusiasts reading it may run out and purchase a day light, stop supplementing with D3, and assume their leopard gecko will be much better off. Unfortunately that's just recipe for disaster.

hey I didn't write this, lol I found it on another gecko forum. I don't have UVB yet and your right the vet did not tell me all that.

my wife was looking for info on uvb. Do you know of any websites that show with how to use it?

It is true, the head of the exotics department at my college (who is also the head of the exotics/zoological department in the Teaching Vet Hospital) has classified insectivores under carnivores, sort of like a sub-category.

Read and replied to your pink spot thread jess, and peach ask all the questions toy like, out doesn't irritate me at all, and to answer leos generally don't seek out and eat pinkies, granted they are opportunistic eaters in the wild and something is better than nothing but leos are designed to eat invertibrates, and digesting bone and possibly fur is not something they do easily. It usually ends up in constipation and if enough pinkies are fed eventual impaction.