About To Be A Leo Owner

Hello, My names Shawn.

I am new to these little guys, heck I never knew they even existed till my teacher got one, now I play with it everyday! A man I know is about to give me three because they're all littler mates and have been together for a year and a half ( he wants them to stay together ) I am trying to learn more and more about them, everyday I research new things then at school I play with my teachers, watching how it moves, eats, drinks and well, I guess sleeps. I have learned many things like not to use a heat rock cause they might burn themselves, I have emailed my teacher about it and I hope he will get a UTH ( under tank heater ).

OK now back to what I was curious about, I have read not to mix different species together then I read another and it says its OK, I wanna majority say.

I have two home raised frogs that wont grown bigger than a quarter and AREN'T poisonous, can I put them in the same tank together? It is a 30-40 gallon tank.

Thanks a TON <>< Shawn K.

Welcome to the forum, and Absolutely not. Everywhere that frogs sit in their viv they leave toxic residue even if they aren't "poisonous" frogs. The naturally secrete toxins as a defense mechanism. If your leo were to lick this it could kill them. Not to mention leos feed from a prey response to moving objects they preceive they can eat. If your leo were to mistakenly try to eat one of these frogs the results could be disasterous for both the leo and the frog. Their husbandry requirements are completely different as well. Lastly being a first time leo owner is challenging, let alone taking on a group, that is something that should only be taken on by the most experienced keepers as there are a lot is things that can go wrong in a group environment. Battles over the best spots, foods, and breeding rights, not to mention males in a group setting will likely try to kill eachother regardless if they were raised together or not. Leos are solitary creatures by nature and this fellow wanting them to start together is being unrealistic. Leos should be housed separately, opposite genders will breed regardless if their related and breeding leos definitely should be left to experienced keepers with the proper knowledge of what happens during breeding and the special care needed for laying females. Three leos housed together would need a 40 gallon tank at the minimum. You'd need to be able and equipped to separate them at the first sign of trouble which means keeping 2 additional set ups in hand just in case. It's a HUGE undertaking having a community tank. I highly advise against it. Welcome to the forum, and Absolutely not. Everywhere that frogs sit in their viv they leave toxic residue. If your leo were to lick this it could kill them. Their husbandry requirements are completely different as well. Lastly being a first time leo owner is challenging, let alone taking on a group, that is something that should only be taken on by the most experienced keepers as there are a lot is things that can go wrong in a group environment. Battles over the best spots, foods, and breeding rights, not to mention males in a group setting will likely try to kill eachother regardless if they were raised together or not. Leos are solitary creatures by nature and this fellow wanting them to start together is being unrealistic. Leos should be housed separately, opposite genders will breed regardless if their related and breeding leos definitely should be left to experienced keepers with the proper knowledge of what happens during breeding and the special care needed for laying females. Three leos housed together would need a 40 gallon tank at the minimum. You'd need to be able and equipped to separate them at the first sign of trouble which means keeping 2 additional set ups in hand just in case. It's a HUGE undertaking having a community tank. I highly advise against it.

here is a example, i have a three adult males, two of which are brothers and have been together since laying. I had them in a 60 gallon cage with lots of hiding spots and platforms and even seperated during feeding time, the two youngest where juvies at the time. they all lived together just fine, no fights nothing, then one day after the two youngest matured, i noticed the larger of the two had a huge wound on his head between the eyes, my oldest leo, a giant tremper albino, had attacked him, then i saw the smallest trying to attack the giant, they QUICKLY got seperated, luckily i had the fore thought that this might happen and already had three seperat cages set up just incase, they lived together for about 3 months before the fights started, now they are happy in there seperate cages and the wound on the middle one is now completly healed up.

Thanks a LOT guys ^^ your all a big help!

I wont put the froggies with them, and I guess that I will have to find another home for the second male if things go wrong, I don't have a ton of space where I live to have a lot of separate housing tanks. I intend to breed the little guys but only after I know a LOT more about them. I am glad I joined this site because now I know what to not do. Do you guys have any great tips for me as a new owner of leo's ?

i have three....research, research, research.

just ask if you have any specific questions. and good luck! one more bit of advise, move into a bigger place, because leopard geckos are more addicting than crack! ....crack man, crack!

XD I figured they were when my teacher told me once that he had over 20 of em but his wife made him give them all to students and people he knew! X3 I freaking love this breed.

lol welcome to the forum! if i could give you some advice i would start with telling you not to do the most common mistakes that most people make when they start out with leos.

1. don't use sand as substrate. although many people use sand and calcium sand as substrate this is a big no no, its very bad for them for multiple reasons and can cause impaction. if i were you i would start out using paper towels to line the bottom of the tank until you figure out a more permanent solution.

2. make sure to get a under tank heater not a heat lamp, heat lamps only hurt the leos eyes and stress them out, leos need belly heat to e able to digest their food so they must have a under tank heater.

3. make sure to get a digital probe thermometer not the plastic round stick on thermometers, those really don't work and they don't work at all for leos, you need the digital prob thermometer because you need to be able to place the prob on top of were the heat mat will be to be able to keep the temps at about 90 to 95.

4. make sure you have enough hides if you are going to have more then one leo in the same cage, you will also need to make sure you have a good moist hide in there all the time for them to be able to shed correctly ^_^

those are the most common mistakes people make when starting with leos, if i were you i would read up on this thread because it has awesome advice and ideas to help you out with your leo set up ^_^ http://www.leopardgeckoforum.com/t166-proper-housing-for-leopard-geckos good luck and dont be afraid to ask us any other questions!! and dont forget to update us with some awesome leo pics!

Welcome to the forum Shawn, I hope we are able to answer all your questions.

I first saw leopard geckos when I was in grade 2, it was a class pet. I know how much having one in the class makes you want one!

I guess that I will have to find another home for the second male if things go wrong,

Its not a matter of IF things go wrong, its WHEN things go wrong. Because they will, housing two males together. And if the third leo is a female, the female will probably be bullied constantly to mate. If its a male, then more fighting will happen. I would honestly try finding a leo from a different place, because I wouldn't trust the seller if he's keeping males together, but that's just me.

I don't have a ton of space where I live to have a lot of separate
housing tanks. I intend to breed the little guys but only after I know a
LOT more about them.

Not to be rude/bubble burster, but if you can't separate the males, you're not gonna have room for a bunch of hatchlings. Hatchlings should be separated as they can bully each other, that means a separate enclosure for each, with a potential of upwards of 20 hatchlings. That is a lot of enclosures. As well, if you know nothing about the genetics of the these leos, its not recommended to breed them. Also, just keep in mind you won't make ANYTHING off of breeding the leos. It takes years for breeders to break even, never mind earn anything.

100+ for Mystic!

@ kathstew -
Thanks for the info about the males, I figured they would fight but the man wants them to go together, I have found a friend who will take the other male as her own pet, she loves these guys but can't afford one from a pet store or breeder. The man who I am getting them from made a deal with his wife that he could only get a Bearded dragon if he gave his Leo's a good home, he found me on craigslist XD I don't want to breed till I have my own place, I am still at home 'cause the apartments here are TREMENDOUS! Plus my boyfriend doesn't want to breed them till we have had them a couple of years, until we know the Leo better.
@ Mystic -
I have been doing a TON of reading up on the Leos XD most of my day consists of going to different breeders sites and reading the " how to care for " parts of their sites, then glancing at the beautiful Leos they have! ^^ I have read about most of what you commented about except the sand O_O .... I didn't know not to use sand, I have seen so many people ( Person friends ) use the sand and have no issues, do you know if it is EVERY sand, or just certain ones ??? Everyday I try to find un-used terrarium things from people I know around school, even strangers who I know have them but don't use certain things from them, I am wanting to get all I can before I take on the task of my little Leo friends. Sadly people keep reporting my posts on craigslist to try and find terrarium things that people don't want and want to recycle to another person, but I just keep re-posting. I am trying so hard to give the mans Leos a chance to find a loving home. Sorry if I ramble XP I'm bad at that sometimes! Thanks a TON for the help though and I am reading the links info RIGHT after I post this! Happy Holidays!

Something to consider if you want more than 1 keep is to get a20 long or 30 gallon tank and divide it with sheets of plexi glass and put the uth in the middle so it extends into both sections, voila 2 encloses, less space, less equipment, and you can keep both leos work out worry of hostility. Dude insisting on keeping 2 makes together is an idiot..., please don't listen to any advice he had to offer on property husbandry. As far as sand goes, ANY particle substrait is bad, sand (any kind) wood chips, bed a beast, anything that can be ingested, even accidentally, can cause gi impaction with your herp. Leos come from packed earth deserts and live in rocky craigs and crevices so those types of substrait are unnatural and not recommended. The only place those mediums should be considered is for litter trays, lay boxes, and possibly moist hides. Theres a lot to learn and theres a lot of misinformation out there so be careful trusting other sites facts. We have a great collection of knowledge members here, we give ACCURATE concise info that can be trusted 99% of the time bury yourself in the stickies and you will learn soooo much so fast you'll be amazed. Use the search feature to find specific info you might be looking for and always feel free to ask any questions you may have... The only stupid question is the one left un asked

it really is surprising how many people who have owned leopard geckos don't know that sand is extremely bad for them, allot of the time they go to a pet store and listen to what the salesmen have to say, i swear with my experience almost 95% of every person that works at a pet store doesn't know crap about what they sell, all they do is what the managers tell them and that is keep the cage clean, feed them this, and sell all you can with the pet. pet stores don't really care about the animals they are just trying to make money most of the time. some even argue that sand is just fine to put in with adult leopard geckos but its not. all the sands in the pet stores, especially the calcium sands that they sell for leopard geckos is very bad. sands with color stain your leo and all its hides and that alone makes me know something isn't right.. sand can cause shedding problems, eye infection, skin infections, and the one every one knows impaction. its a very bad thing to have them housed in. if your teacher or friends have them housed in it i would try letting them know about how bad it is for their leo, but sadly allot of people don't like to hear that sand is bad for their leo because it does look nice and they would rather have something that looks nice and isn't hard for them to clean up. but that is like putting a hamster on clumping cat litter its whole life, it isnt good for them and isn't natural either. allot of people are not as smart as you are when it comes to these things, you are doing your research, not in just one place but multiple places, you are taking your time and getting what you need unlike most people who impulse buy and don't know a thing about what their new pet really needs. as a pet owner you want to do the best you can to keep your pet healthy and happy because i think if you really love your pet you wouldn't want to take even the smallest risk of it suffering from your lack in judgment you know? lol and here you thought you babel on just look at me ^_~

@Kermit -
Thanks for the advice XP I am going to ask the man who is giving me his Leos about the situation there in, he says their two years old, even has the receipt for them from when he got them. I am curious why his haven't fought yet at that age, considering they reach maturity after 10-14 months, at least that's what I read a lot... I hope it's right. I don't quite know what he uses as a substrate but what he uses I hope to keep using it, unless it's sand.
@ Mystic -
I really like your profile pic. on here, so cute! I am glad you gave me so much info on the sand situation ^^ it really helps XD and you don't really babble TOOO much, at least it's helpful babble. I hope to give these little guys a wonderful home for the years I have them so every little bit helps.

thats awesome i hope you give them a wonderful home!
thanks i love my little charm she is a good little model and when i took that picture it reminded me of Jurassic park when the guy looks at the head female raptor and says "clever girl" lol so yeah charm is my little raptor haha

Maybe the guy is wrong on their genders... Maybe they're not 2 males, could be a bulgy pair of females. You are right that usually most leos reach maturity by 14 months, some as late as to 2 years.

I looked, I know one of them is for SURE male, I haven't checked the others. I am going to post my pics of them all soon. They're so CUTE!