gutloading with potatoes is not good!

my good friend Thad at ohiogecko.com gave me a really good heads up, and i thought id pass it on... i go to his house quite often because he gets my mealies for me and we are also good friends. well i was asking him some questions about keeping meal worms and gutloading them. i told him i used carrots and potatoes. he told me to NEVER use potatoes because after a while this will cause gout and the geckos stomach will turn black!!! he told me to use carrots, apples, oranges, greens, and stuff like that, but NEVER potatoes! i just figured i would pass this on, because i read in another post that someone is using potatoes...i have also been using oats for the meal worms bedding and they are doing very well on this! i dont know if they do or not, but im guessing they also may eat some of the oats. i now use carrots, apples, and oranges for my gutloading, my meal worms are doing tons better since i have changed a few things around. i keep them in a big rubbermaid tote with about two inches of oats as bedding, the above food for gut loading, i keep them in the laundry room with no lid. i have central air in my house so the mealies stay at about 67 degrees f(i dont keep my house this cool, just the laundry room is really cool). i had a lid on them in smaller containers in my garage for a while, but the humidity build up i kept getting caused the oats to mold, so i ended up tossing out over 500 mealies! i have had great success with my new methods, and my meal worms seem much healthier and are much more active now.

Looks like I'm posting this in 2 sections ... Gout is a build up of uric acid crystals in the joints... how do potatos contribute to uric acid? To prevent gout it is suggest to avoid Foods considered moderately high in purines. Purines are found in all protein foods. Potato is NOT a protein food, it's a carb. Potatoes have not been isolated as a major, or even minor, cause of gout. Studies have shown that they are in fact fine to eat and top the list as a LOW purine food.

I'm not sure where Thad is getting this information from but I would suspect there's more to the black gut than a little potatoe fed to his feeders... maybe their stomachs are black from trying to digest too much shell from all those meal worms.

Also just an fyi when using apples to gutload make sure there is no core or seeds in them as the seeds produce aresnic when ingested and are obviously going to make your feeders toxic. Also some broad leafed greens produce oxalates that bind to calcium making it impossible for your herp to absorb it. Spinach is the #1 contributer to this one.

I've always kept my supers on old fashioned oats with a little crushed high quality dog food in there and they have thrived and grown to about 3 inches long (can you imagine that!) I gutload with carrots apple slices and potato and have never had an issue. Maybe next time some more research and the advice of more than 1 breeder could be a good thing before posting something that is a "he said" kinda post.

If this makes people skeptical of using regular white potatoe to gutload you can always use sweet potato or squash insted. Even fish food flakes in their bedding will help with proper gutloading.

with all due respect, this is coming from a guy that thad knows who has been breeding leos for thirty years..so im taking what he said and not using potatoes, if you want to, that is on you...im just passing on what a gentleman who has been doing this longer that you and me combined, so do with it what you will...im not taking the chance. and he feeds things OTHER than just meal worms...

I'm sorry you feel that way but I wasn't trying to do anything except provide accurate information obtained thru various studies on the matter since you brought it up. I'm certainly NOT a know it all, I'll be the first to admit what I don't know, but I am one heck of a researcher, and when you post something as dramatic as "NEVER use potatoes to gutload because they cause gout because thad said so" I'm sorry but I'm going to refute that esp. if the evidence points to the contrairy.

If you have other sources aside of Thad to backup what you're saying please.... by all means post it, I would love to see it esp. if it can help my leo, but just going on what some one says is not the best way to spred accurate reliable information. Yes, they may be a long term breeder s and may have some knowledge on the matter but when you have scientific proof to the contrairy then it also needs to be considered. We greatly appreciate what you have to contribute on the forum, and look forward to many more informative posts from you, but in the same stroke you have to consider what you're offering and the potential impact it can have. Sometimes it is better to be able to provide a little more hard facts when posting a recommendation from a breeder.

I suspect there's another reason his leos guts are blackening aside of gutloading with potato. Again I'd look at the diet, solely a mealworm diet with little or no variation in feeders, that's a lot of shell to be ingesting and digesting... black stomach is usually a sign of internal bleeding... I HIGHLY doubt that what a feeder eats could contribute to internal bleeding BUT internal bleeding could be caused by an excess of feeder shell in their bellies rubbing the stomach lining raw thusby causing pinprick bleeds.

If people would like to research for themseleves food that is high in uric acid and prob not a good gutload source for their animals in fear of gout setting in here is a list that you can check out before venturing into different gutloading foods http://www.acumedico.com/purine.htm it is a purine table showing the purine levels in different foods. Obviously you want a food that is as low in purine as possible when considering gutload alternatives.

What I like to do when it comes to taking the word of someone because they have been a "long term breeder" of ANY species whether it is a herp a mammal or what have you, it is always prudent to further research any information they offer. With the internet today and the font of information out there at the very least people can get the pros and cons of their suggestions and be better equipped to make an educated decision as to whether or not they want to impliment those suggestions. I know people who have bred dogs for over 30 years and offer suggestions on training and behavior that are so far off that is is sickening. That is why a little time in research can never be replaced by a single person's personal opinion when it isn't backed with some sort of scientific proof.