Morph confirmation

This is Jane, a 6 month old female and I just wanted to confirm that she is indeed a jungle phase?

Sorry, my bad, forgot to attach pic. I have tried to do that using the host image button but an advert window keeps popping up?

Ok, so now I give up. Please can someone tell me how to attach a photo to my post?

use the host image button then copy and paste into the thread the middle code out of the 3it brings up

if your still having problems there is a guide half way down a thread called Help in the health & illness section

Hi, there is a good little guide including pictures here: http://www.leopardgeckoforum.com/t186-can-t-get-photo-to-add

Right, trying one more time...

He isn't a jungle unfortunately he is an Abberant.

The difference between the two is;
An Abberant has broken bands (and a random sort of pattern) on the back but no broken bands on the tail.
and a Jungle, has both broken bands on the tail and body.

This is a jungle pattern...his name is Zero

I understand, thanks. Naughty pet shop telling me she is a jungle! Like the other pet shop calling their leo morphs "pepper" - there is no such morph is there? I want to take a photo and ask you guys to identify cos I think they might be a mack snow variant and if so, they are special cos you can't find snows anywhere here.

Wow i think your leo is gorgeous

Yes she is gorgeous, and fortunately for me she is something unusual - an aberrant normal. Now all I need to do is go and educate the pet shop!

hahaha the pet shop told me my leopard gecko was a blizzard.. and when i posted her pic i was told she was a mack snow.. and i researched the morphs and i was like :O how can they confuse those two morphs? they couldn't be more different. I told them and they were like ohhh yeah thats was it.. pretending they knew lol

Please explain how yrs is a mack snow cos her body is patchy (broken?)and tail ringed. I thought mack snow was reduced yellow colour on body? Is there no chance it is an aberrant? Just putting it out there so someone can correct me and teach me the way...

I don't know how shes a mack snow tbh im not good at genetics lol you'll have to ask jordan about that.. I was just told on another gecko forum that she's a mack snow.

Here are some pics of her that I posted a while ago.. soo you can see her colouring

http://www.leopardgeckoforum.com/t81-just-took-some-more-photos-of-banana

right how do i explain this lol.

A Mack Snow is a Mack Snow because it genetically carries the mack snow gene, the varied patterning on the back is just sort of part of the mack snow gene as such, sometimes it occurs sometimes it doesnt.

An Abberant is an abberant when its varied and random pattern is varied and random without the help of any other genes.

SO a normal with a weird pattern on the back is an abberant because obviously being a normal doesnt affect the pattern at all.
OR a Raptor with a funky random pattern on the body (jungle or abberant) would be considered an Abberant/Jungle Raptor, because the raptor genes arent what is causing the varied patterning so it is necessary to mention the jungle or abberant.
But with something like mack snow, even if it did include jungle then there is no way of proving it or even knowing, because the varied back pattern comes as part of the mack snow package.

Hope that made sense. I think the other two snow genes also cause varying back patterns.

Phew, I have LOTS to learn...

Thanks for explanation Jordan.

So, let me see if I have some sort of idea about this. You could buy a leo from someone who tells you its a jungle or aberrant and that leo could have the mack snow gene but you won't know until you breed with that leo?

Thanks for pics Sarah. Banana is a beautiful gecko and her tail is so fat. How old is she?

joneill wrote:
So, let me see if I have some sort of idea about this. You could buy a leo from someone who tells you its a jungle or aberrant and that leo could have the mack snow gene but you won't know until you breed with that leo?

erm i suppose that could happen but its not too hard to identify the difference between the mack snow random patterning and jungle random patterning. But i suppose that could technically happen, but its more likely they know its a mack snow, but for marketing reasons they will say Jungle mack snow or something, when in actual fact there is no jungle present.

joneill wrote:Thanks for pics Sarah. Banana is a beautiful gecko and her tail is so fat. How old is she?

Thankyou

Well i was volunteering at a pet shop when i first met banana.. when I had a look into the costs and stuff and decided that I wanted her... i asked questions about her.. but all the pet shop would tell me was that she was about a year old.. soo I just classed her as 1 years old.. and that was back in october when I brought her home.. soo I'm just estimating that she is about 1 year and 7 months old.

Ok Jordan, so I would like to pair my leos - bell albino & normal aberrant - only when female is 18 months old cos its better to wait until they are fully sexually mature. Their babies will all be normal het bell which means they have one copy of the albino gene from dad and one copy of normal (wild type) gene from mom. I suppose they will also have random patterning from the aberrant mom? Then I could breed one of the baby females back to dad and their babies will be 100% bell albino as they will get one copy of albino gene from each parent. Yes? Pls say that I have finally got it.

joneill wrote:Ok Jordan, so I would like to pair my leos - bell albino & normal aberrant - only when female is 18 months old cos its better to wait until they are fully sexually mature. Their babies will all be normal het bell which means they have one copy of the albino gene from dad and one copy of normal (wild type) gene from mom. I suppose they will also have random patterning from the aberrant mom? Then I could breed one of the baby females back to dad and their babies will be 100% bell albino as they will get one copy of albino gene from each parent. Yes? Pls say that I have finally got it.

Haha your gonna hate me so much now... lol.

They will recieve one copy of the normal gene yes, BUT this does not mean they are het normal, as normal is a dominant gene, and so they will look normal obviously.
You are right about the abberant thing, though it will be diluted and not as much as the mom, and also not on ever baby.

Now this is the annoying bit, if you breed a het bell to the bell albino daddy, you will get 50% Bell Albino, and 50% Normal het bells. Let me show you why on a punnet square.

Okay so a 'b' represents the bell gene, and N represents normal;

daddy> / het bell	b	b
N	Nb	Nb
b	bb	bb

The top row represents daddy's (bell albino) gene's, and the side coloumn represents the het bell hatchlings genes, the 4 middle squares are the outcome.

See how the top row of babies, are normal het bell?

Hope that helped.

Ok, ok, that makes sense. I will keep reading up on subject and try to learn more. I wanted to ask you if it is a good idea to pair babies with parents and siblings with each other? Is this not interbreeding and does it not cause any defects in offspring?

It is called line breeding and it has the potential to be seriously disasterous or seriously perfecting depending on the leos you use... if you use 2 leos that are related and both have recessive genetic defects breeding them together will bring those defects to the surface in some of the offspring in the first generation (and subsequently more of the offspring in the clutches could be affected in the linebreeding of these related leos)... on the other hand if you breed 2 perfectly healthy and related leos together you will solidify the type you are trying for and start the foundation of making a consistantly typed leo with in your breeding program. Clutch patterns and phenotypes will be more consistant among a larger portion of the clutch with the oddball here and there. 49% should resemble mom, 49% should resemble dad, and 2% will stand out and resemble neither much.

All right, I am pitching a curve ball here...Jane, pictured above now has a bit of orange in the base of her tail and we only noticed it after her last shed. Surely, a normal does not have any orange whatsoever?