Breeding 'bad' genes/morphs
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Breeding 'bad' genes/morphs
What are everyones opinions on breeding animals with genes that in my opinion are bad for a species?
eg.: Enigma Leopard Geckos, Stargazing Cornsnakes, wobbly Spider Royal Pythons, bug eyed Texas Ratsnakes, one eyed albino boas, etc etc etc
IMO these should not be bred, they do nothing to enhance a species and seem to me to only be driven by money and people who must have the latest and greatest morphs with no thought of the animals quality of life.
To take a parallel in humans, nobody purposely has children with disabilities which is how I see some of these morphs, so what is the argument FOR doing it?
eg.: Enigma Leopard Geckos, Stargazing Cornsnakes, wobbly Spider Royal Pythons, bug eyed Texas Ratsnakes, one eyed albino boas, etc etc etc
IMO these should not be bred, they do nothing to enhance a species and seem to me to only be driven by money and people who must have the latest and greatest morphs with no thought of the animals quality of life.
To take a parallel in humans, nobody purposely has children with disabilities which is how I see some of these morphs, so what is the argument FOR doing it?
Re: Breeding 'bad' genes/morphs
I am opposed to breeding genes tha can fault the animal such as enigma and bug eyes, the point tin morphology is to creat a new color/pattern to an existing standard but without compromising the existing physiology of the animal.
For instance, I breed netherland dwarf rabbits... they can't be over 2.6 pounds for show. A mutation in the dwarfing gene can cause what's called a "max factor" baby. Born eyes open, no feet and usually dead, on. Occaionally some come out right in looks exterally but internal physiology is all screwed up. They can survive and remain small their whole lives (like no more than 1.2-1.3 pounds). A disreputable breeder could breed that max factor to an oversized netherland to make a smaller more compact animal BUT if that animal had a recessive dwarfing gene and you mate it with a max factor which is a dominant dwarf gene all your litters ill.either be max factors (which some may survive) or all peanuts (which is a dwarf born with a double dwarfing gene and look like an under developed featus and are dead). There is nothing to be gained from breeding max's except bringing down the size a little. Its not worth the risk of those rabbits getting into the gene pool and risking someone's entire breeding season with unuseable aimals. They don't have to state it on the pedigree its a max and with herps they don't even have a pedigree (which I think they should) so herpers could get doubly screwed not even knowing which lines to void.
There's a breeder code of ethics which is to try to achieve the best animal as close to the accepted standard as possible and if you're creating potential quality of life issues. Star gazers enigma thoseall impact quality of life. Don't do it.
For instance, I breed netherland dwarf rabbits... they can't be over 2.6 pounds for show. A mutation in the dwarfing gene can cause what's called a "max factor" baby. Born eyes open, no feet and usually dead, on. Occaionally some come out right in looks exterally but internal physiology is all screwed up. They can survive and remain small their whole lives (like no more than 1.2-1.3 pounds). A disreputable breeder could breed that max factor to an oversized netherland to make a smaller more compact animal BUT if that animal had a recessive dwarfing gene and you mate it with a max factor which is a dominant dwarf gene all your litters ill.either be max factors (which some may survive) or all peanuts (which is a dwarf born with a double dwarfing gene and look like an under developed featus and are dead). There is nothing to be gained from breeding max's except bringing down the size a little. Its not worth the risk of those rabbits getting into the gene pool and risking someone's entire breeding season with unuseable aimals. They don't have to state it on the pedigree its a max and with herps they don't even have a pedigree (which I think they should) so herpers could get doubly screwed not even knowing which lines to void.
There's a breeder code of ethics which is to try to achieve the best animal as close to the accepted standard as possible and if you're creating potential quality of life issues. Star gazers enigma thoseall impact quality of life. Don't do it.
Re: Breeding 'bad' genes/morphs
If the bad gene as such can bring a lot to the colour and display of the animal, then obviously it is hard to pass, and i don't agree with breeding the animal solely for this purpose, but if the disabilities of the animal or the defects that come assosciated with the gene can be bred out then, breeding the gene to improve can be justified.
The enigma gene is getting better and better and coming with less and less problems through improvement breeding. Once the negative defects are gone, then its the best of both worlds.
As much as i don't condone breeding leo's which could have a bad life, we tend to forget its our human emotions that label it as 'a bad life', the gecko feels no emotion no sadness, and any physical disabilities are considered normal in his mind as he knows nothing better. We all know that the gecko's have much simpler brains than ours, and thats why we keep em in boxes with their basic needs and play god with them.
The enigma gene is getting better and better and coming with less and less problems through improvement breeding. Once the negative defects are gone, then its the best of both worlds.
As much as i don't condone breeding leo's which could have a bad life, we tend to forget its our human emotions that label it as 'a bad life', the gecko feels no emotion no sadness, and any physical disabilities are considered normal in his mind as he knows nothing better. We all know that the gecko's have much simpler brains than ours, and thats why we keep em in boxes with their basic needs and play god with them.
Re: Breeding 'bad' genes/morphs
I don't think its ethical to compromise the quality of life of an animal just to "enhace" color or type esp. When that beauty c,omes with life altering side effects such as not being able to zero in on food or spinning. Altho it may seem "normal" to the poor creature as that is all it knows, we as their "god" shouldn't be so selfish and self serving. Sure you might be able to breed it out in several generations and crosses down the road but what of the multitude of animals in the meanwhile that die or have to be destroyed because of those defects? Exactly why I won't use my max factor rabbit in my breeding... sure you can breed out the effects od the gene but not completely. I will ALWAYS be in the recessive no matter how much you dilute it. It still has the chance od popping up again regardless if its 5 generations or 50 generations later. Also isn't the enigma gene a dominant gene trait?
Breeder code of ethics isn't something to be short changed and if you can't get the morph you want with out incuding an animal that will/could produce such drastic genetic defects then don't breed. There are no short cuts to sucessful breeding ( and imo success isn't just producing a color or type. Its judged by the WHOLE animal).
Breeder code of ethics isn't something to be short changed and if you can't get the morph you want with out incuding an animal that will/could produce such drastic genetic defects then don't breed. There are no short cuts to sucessful breeding ( and imo success isn't just producing a color or type. Its judged by the WHOLE animal).
Re: Breeding 'bad' genes/morphs
I agree with your argument, except for the Spider BP wobble. I've honestly, personally, read about a couple of occasions the wobble presents itself and the animals it does prevail in have had no ill effects due to proper care by the owner. A missed strike is a missed strike.
It's a shame though, an registering body for reptiles like the AKC or something would be interesting. But, as it is, the extreme morphs coming out of limitless breeding are breath taking.
It's a shame though, an registering body for reptiles like the AKC or something would be interesting. But, as it is, the extreme morphs coming out of limitless breeding are breath taking.
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