Fussy Eaters!

Wow that came as quite a shock to me too, i know this may sound very horrible and i completly understand if you don't want to but, if you were to post a picture of him, his tummy, and the inside of his mouth, then we may be able to have an idea of what it is that has killed him.
But if you are uncomfortable with that i completely understand.

I hope this doesn't put you off owning any more gecko's. As i know you did all you could to save him, and i don't think it was your fault.

I'm sorry for your loss, the lost pets memorial section is a great place to remember him/her.

So szorry this happened. Did this happen before or after you started using the new uth? Also natural slate can be used in part of the tank but if it is used thru out your uth will try to heat the entire surface so maybe slate on your hot side ans ceramic vinyl or porcelain on the cool side. Slate is hard to heat thru so sometimes it helps to bake it in the oven at 200 degrees for about an hour to get it up to a decent temp before depending on the uth to heat it all up. Also keep the slate thin. No thicker than a half inch.

im sorry, i would have taken a photograph but i already disposed of his body, it seems they degrade quite quickly too as he was rather smelly. il describe him as best as i can:
i opened up his home and found him laying still so got him out, he had been dead a little while as his eyes were sunken in, his nose and mouth were a very dark pink/red, on the inside not out, his mouth was slightly parted and he had particles of substrate sort of wedged between his lips. i assume the crickets must have stripped him of any valuable nutrients as his front legs were bone-the fat and skin had been eaten, and his back legs had been eaten off completely. there was a hole in his left side where he had i think been eaten, with ribs partially showing and much of his insides had gone, although when i turned him on his back to view his belly, he looked extremely skinny, like he had no fat. his tail was intact and by the looks of it hadnt been touched at all which is strange as all his other areas of fat were gone. unfortunately we ordered the uth the day he died so i didnt get a chance to use it, and hence the floor tiles hadnt been applied either. i did wonder if crickets would eat him alive or in his sleep? or only when he is dead?

As horrible as this may sound, when it happened to my bearded dragon they crickets ate a hole into his back next to his spin while he was asleep that was a good 1cm deep and 1cm round but he servied and i had it happen to a 5day old baby where they ate all the skin and meat off his back leg but he died 5days later so yes it is possible they ate your poor little leo while he was sleeping and thats what could of killed him

There must be somthing underlying though, because surely any healthy and alert gecko would wake up and be able to over power the crickets.
The crickets would have to be too big for the gecko, or he didnt have the energy to stop them.

yeah but if he was asleep.. he wouldn't know. i've heard that reptiles have a high pain tolerance.. they don't have the same pain receptors as mammals so they don't know they are being hurt. There was a snake at Blackpool zoo that kept laying on his UV lighting and his underbelly was being badly burnt and he didn't move. They put one of those cages over the light and he still kept laying on it. They just don't realise that everything is happening.

Oh they know when they're being hurt... they just think tho that if I lay her long enough it will go away. They always presume that any pain/negative experience they are having can't be a direct result of something they're doing.

As far as your leo goes... it sounds to me like he may have been impacted to suddenly die like that. I know I mentioned early on in this thread about leaving live food in with leos being a bad idea as they will torment your herp if you don't leave secondary food in the tank for them (and even sometimes if you do). Now we see that is not a rumor. I'm sorry that you didn't get much of a chance to redo the tank to proper husbandry standards, but hopefully you get it up and going in time to help your other leo. I was just curious if the healthy leo had died after you installed the new UTH, wondering if it was too hot for him, but I guess not. That honestly sounds like a lot of decaying for a 6 hour period... are you sure he didn't maybe pass the night before and you just discovered it then after you got home from work?

The whole situation really sucks.. so sorry again that you're going thru this, but all you can really do at this point is make sure you have the proper set up for your ailing leo and make sure you do all yucan to get him back on track... good luck

well there is the positive side that i am learning from all this and i now know how to keep a gecko properly, i just hope i can nurse my other little guy well enough to be able to put everything into practice. the crickets were definately small but there were about 8 or 9 in the tank so i uppose it is possible. i am worried though now, i have my other gecko in a box (with heat mat, hide, water bowl etc) an i put a crcket in there to see if he would eat it however i found the cricket sitting on his nose damn things

They are pesty little things. When I feed crickets I put in two at a time and if they do not seem interested the first time they look at them I take them out again so that they can't bug them too much.

Try putting some carrots or other veggies in a small dish in the tank soo the crickets will eat that instead of annoying your gecko. Or put a cricket it and wait for 5 mins and if he doesn't eat it.. take it out and try again later.

Its strange though, i have always been 'leaver-in' of crickets (don't shout at me lol) , well only 2 -3ish, and never had any problems, which makes me beleive there has to be something underlying to have caused the gecko to give up.

Sheer numbers Jordan... 8-9 crickets can overtake a gecko easily esp. if they're hungry.

ok my other gecko has kicked the bucket, poor guy, but i kind of expected that- he was skinny and lethargic. i was right about them decaying quickly, the last time i checked him was half 11 last night before bed and he was fine, still alive and this morning his eyes and for some reason gums have decayed and he is smelling. i noticed around his mouth there are the tiniest little teeth, i dont know if that is the bone showing through or anything. anyway im going to throw away my vivarium and start fresh next time, seeing as i have a brand new heat mat on the way and new floor tiles etc. or i might sell them

Awwww so sorry to hear that the other has now died too

they do have very small teeth, the heat in the viv/tub will cause them to decay quicker than if there in a unheated enviroment.

Aw, poor you. Don't let it dishearten you, it was just too late, since you found help. I'm really sorry this had to happen.
If you plan on selling your vivarium and stuff, remember to give them a good disinfecting first.

I recommend buying from a breeder when you buy a new gecko rather than a commercial pet store. And also buying not such a young gecko, maybe a sub adult, so its calm but you can still see it grow up or even an adult as adults are calm, don't need feeding as often and are generally a little stronger against crickets and illness's.

I know this sounds like im just trying to make a sale but i mean this honestly and seriously, i might have the perfect gecko. Its a sub adult (so still young but not too young) tremper albino (so a standard morph) and is perfectly helathy and likes being handled.
I don't want to sound like i'm just trying to sell you a gecko, and i'm barely selling a gecko because active forum members get a very big discount lol.

I am so sorry for your losses. My heart goes out to you. Please don't blame yourself, you were doing the right thing by asking for help here.

i would absolutely love another leo, they are the perfect pet- obviously before getting any more little friends i need to know if its the vivarium that is causing the problems, also sheffield is so far away, i doubt i could get up there. i had already considered when my leos were alive donating them to someone a little more experienced, the gecko i had before (Serj) was i think a sub adult and he was absolutely perfect for me to look after but when we moved homes he became too stressed and unsettled by this. im absolutely not disheartened about looking after leos, and im so thankful for all the information and help i have been given, and look forward to taking care of more, obviously now i know how to take care of them a bit better. i think it was too ambitious of me to look after babies

Well thats great that you are still very eager to own gecko's.

There are great courier services specialising in transporting animals, like the Reptile Taxi and stuff.
When you come to look around for another gecko i can suggest some great breeders near you if you like. Or one's that can ship gecko's out.

well i will clean out and completely disinfect the vivarium, and all the accessories before considering another gecko, il have a look into the reptile courier service, you said you have a sub adult i would be willing to buy, obvoiusly id want to see a picture and this would ONLY be if you wanted, i would completely understand if you couldnt trust me with a gecko, and it would be helpful for some breeder suggestions too
just a question about disinfectant- reptile disinfectant costs a lot of money are there any alternatives (watered down dettol?)

Yes Dettol spray is fine, as long as it is washed off completely afterwards. But i have always used it and had no problems.

I would trust you and i would happily give you as many pictures as you want, my site is the supermorphleo's which is advertised on the side of the forum, she should be in the available gecko's.
But i will not be at all offended if you went with someone closer.

you can use bleach to clean out your viv as long as you air it well after, you can get some good cheap reptile safe disinfectant on the internet. try livefoods uk as there postage is good too.

Im a breeder thats nearer to you but currently i only have deformed and special needs leo's as my breeders haven't produced anything yet.

i had a look at the super morph leo website, your available leo is lovely looking, i might have to save up some money
@ sam, out of curiosity, do you keep all your deformed and special needs leos? i could imagine that could be quite a handful?
thanks everyone for all the help, il keep my tank and things for a while and see how i feel

Wow... so sad... don't give up on leos just yet. When you're provided by the "right" sources such as pet shops and given the completely WRONG info time and time again, you can't blame yourself. You didn't know any better. Now you have a great support system here with us, so if you ever do venture into another leo you can get things right from the start and make a good go of it.

Eros is my first leo... I chose a sub-adult male (he was hatched in March, I bought him from a breeder in Utah in October) because they tend to be a little more docile, don't have to worry about all the potential egg issues as you do with females, and some males tend to be a little less expensive than females. I knew I didn't have it in me to raise a hatchling or young juvie. It was too much of a commitment than I had available at the time. I didn't want to feed everyday... I wanted it past the "sensitive" stage.

I found a wonderful breeder who thru MANY conversations I finally bought from. A good breeder will be willing to endure hundreds of emails from you just to talk about leos (like Adam did with me ) I would say the hardest thing Eros had to overcome aside of shipping (which he sailed thru), was adjusting from being raised in a tub and going to a natural type viv set up. He was settled in and eating with in 3 days... his first meal was something like 12 meal worms. The breeder handled him for me daily for a couple weeks before he shipped him to me and even included a little paper towel with some of his poo so I could "litterbox" train Eros (basically bait where I wanted him to go potty but it actually is a little sand box that all he does is use it as his potty area). Eros is still a little shy and reserved but I just think that's his temperament and this is a busy household... so maybe we just make him nervous .

So don't give up... just forget everything you know about leos up till this point, fresh start... get a good viv together like one described in my housing thread (sounds like you're already half way there )... and when you're ready the right leo will come along.

currently yes i do keep them all, i have never rehomed any of them. I do have some deformed leo's i could rehome and have thought of rehoming but never got round to it. the deformed leo's aren't as hard work as the special needs, infact 3of the deformed leo's are like keeping normal bodied leo's. i also currently have more deformed and special needs than i do breeders.

if when you have decided you want another leo and would like to rehome a deformed leo, let me know .

i would be interested in looking after a deformed leo, i have no interest in breeding and i know they often dont get homed because of defects i let you know when i begin looking again, the only thing holding me back is whether my vivarium is safe (it isnt shop bought but handmade by a nifty carpenter i know) it seems safe enough but if there was something wrong i would hate for it to cause any more deaths