worm castings or organic tropical soil

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worm castings or organic tropical soil

Post by mosst on Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:17 am

Can I use worm castings or organic tropical soil from buckerfields in my bedding to make it more of a soil based area, anyone try this without troubles? TIY

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Re: worm castings or organic tropical soil

Post by Kermit on Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:39 am

You mean as a substrait for leos? Any type of loose particle substrait is not recommended for a substrait medium. We'd need to know the application you intend to use this for before we could advise further.

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Re: worm castings or organic tropical soil

Post by mosst on Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:22 pm

Hi Kermit,
It is to be used as bedding in the laying box. I want a more soil type of medium, not just vermiculite and coco fibre that is presently in there. They don't like the peat or spagnum moss.

I am letting them keep there eggs in there as I dont care about incubating them and Cleo the female is much happier that I did. The next home that I am building has a 16 qt sterlite box sunken into the floor for them so I am hoping to put the soil in there when that project is done.

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Re: worm castings or organic tropical soil

Post by Kermit on Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:13 pm

To be honest what would be most natural would be moist sand if you don't care about the incubating or saving the eggs. I wouldn't be comfortable using worm castings as that is basically worm poop, not very fresh of an environment for your leo to play in, peat moss is too light and fluffy, they can breathe that stuff in, not good either. I really don't understand your thinking behind letting her keep her eggs, that could lead to a lot if problems such as severe territorial behavior, depression after they're taken, going off food for a long period of time from that depression I mean no real benefit can be gained from keeping them esp. If they're duds, they'll start to rot and sink and be a real health hazard. Then how long do you plan on leaving them with her? Like I said I just can't see any benefit.


Last edited by Kermit on Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:28 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: worm castings or organic tropical soil

Post by James on Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:40 pm

It is not a good idea to use worm castings, as kel said it's basically their poo. Also worm's can harbour parasites and when the worm defecates the parasites can be passed into the poo via cysts- so if you did buy this for your leo it could end up some how ingesting the cysts and getting parasites. Smile

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Re: worm castings or organic tropical soil

Post by mosst on Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:46 pm

The worm castings are not going to be used, even though they are sterilized....I was looking for bonsai soil it was supposed to have some clay in it but cant find it and was offered the castings as a choice. I wouldnt want to live in poo either. So I thought of this lovely forum and shared the idea.

As for sand I was reading that in their natural habitat that leo's shy away from it. Maybe I should try a mix with sand and the vermiculite to make it more dense.

Kermit, About the depression, that's why I was doing this. In a natural way I wanted her to feel better as she really did not eat much after I took her first egg away a couple of weeks ago.

So far she is not eating and gave birth 2 days ago (only one waxy). I have dubai's coming tomorrow, I hope she likes them. When I take her out I put a little repti-boost on her lips but again she doesnt really take that much and i wont force her to either.

So tell me what is the best for keeping her from not eating or depressed, I will get a pic up tomorrow.

My idea was to let her keep the eggs until she ignores them.... only she has been in the box with them, but tonite i saw the male looking over them from the roof of the box while she was over on the cool side.

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Re: worm castings or organic tropical soil

Post by mosst on Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:44 am

Finally the pics. Does she still look fine.

Jan 02 12, laid one egg a week later.


Feb 02 12 after laying 2 eggs 3 days ago

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Re: worm castings or organic tropical soil

Post by Kermit on Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:42 am

I think she looks great to be honest. Laying takes a lot out of them so going off food when it's the breeding/laying season is not out of the ordinary for any leo. What you're seeing as depression because you took her eggs is not likely the case. Depression is a human emotion, and any depression you think you might be seeing is likely just the concern of "I know I left my eggs here now they're gone", which passes in a couple days once she starts gearing up for the next clutch. I imagine laying eggs takes a similar toll like when we give birth... there's a lot of hormone surge that makes you not quite yourself for a few days then things settle down and get back to normal.

If you're keeping her with a male while she's laying she could become highly defensive if you leave the eggs in and the male goes near them. Leos only come together in the wild for breeding then they go their own way for the majority of the species, not including some of the oddball subspecies. The male could also try to eat the eggs like some snakes do. You're setting up a bit of the perfect storm here by thinking she is ruled by her emotions. Many primitive species are ruled by instinct not emotions. I would think that it would be more stress on her constantly being on guard to keep the male away from the eggs than taking them away from her in the first place to be honest, not to mention the fights that could occur between them over the eggs. I honestly think it's best to take them away after their laid.

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Re: worm castings or organic tropical soil

Post by mosst on Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:02 am

Here are the eggs, they were on top of the bedding yesterday so i took them out.


I was told she is the aggressive of the pair and had picked this male only after hurting a couple of male's, so she is maybe a "hot" female.

I am still so new to this and spending almost to much time to make it easy for me to care for them as well as natural for them.....

Instincts instead of emotions. I think you are right, she is already starting to scratch the ground again getting ready for the next clutch.

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Re: worm castings or organic tropical soil

Post by Kermit on Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:44 am

Those are definitely dud eggs. If it's possible you might want to consider having a seperate set up for the male during these stressful times for your female. Last thing she needs is a male pestering her all the time wearing her nervers thin. It's my opinion that leos should be housed seperately anyway, and only brought together for the breeding attempts, but again this is a topic of controversy so the best I can do is forwarn you of the potential dangers of keeping them together and hope you make wise decisions to avoid the potential risk to both your leos. Good for you for taking the eggs out. I think you'll find in the long run it will make for a lot less stressed female.

Just so you know you certainly can never spend too much time researching to make things easier for yourself... knowledge is power right Smile I make it a point to learn something new every day whether it's about canine behavior, leos, gardening, whatever thrills me that day. Never stop learning. Nodding the world is already full of idiots Razz

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